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> I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. That's a valid choice, but not due to technical concerns. You're presu

by oblio 4y ago

> I guess I'll crawl back into my cave and keep using Linux for the foreseeable future. That's a valid choice, but not due to technical concerns. You're presumably very technically literate since you're using Linux. You can just save your license key somewhere and get fresh installation media and reformat the garbage on your device with a clean installation. You don't need any of the Lenovo stuff, your laptop will work just fine with regular Windows Update drivers.

fsflover 4y ago
My non-technical relatives are using Linux just fine. They wouldn't be able to install it themselves though: I did it for them.
- mikro2nd 4y ago
  I don't know why they wouldn't be able to install it themselves, tbh. The last n times I've installed (various distros) the install process went something like: select keyboard layout, select locale/timzone, go away while it installs, reboot. There was nothing there to do unless you want to get into customising disk partitions or something.
  - CoastalCoder 4y ago
    I just helped my brother install Linux on an XPS 13. The main part he had trouble with was configuring the firmware to allow the installation, and then know about the new UEFI partition, and then forget about the no-longer-extant Windows boot partitions. It wasn't obvious how to make that work even for me.
    - fsflover 4y ago
      I had no problems like this with my installation. It's just that some people don't even know about bootable USB sticks - this level of "non-technical".
      - CoastalCoder 4y ago
        I thought I understood USB-stick bootability, but perhaps not well enough. Could you elaborate?
  - _dain_ 4y ago
    >I don't know why they wouldn't be able to install it themselves, tbh. putting the ISO on the USB, telling the BIOS to boot from the USB, dealing with any random failures in grub or whatever, these are showstoppers for nontechnical people. (actually the grub failures are a showstopper for me as well, I've never been able to figure out what you're meant to do if you boot up and get an error at that stage. I just re-roll with a different USB drive or distro or ISO-burning tool and cross my fingers) also nontechnical ppl often will only dare use linux if they have windows as a fallback option, so they want to dual-boot. and setting up / maintaining a dual-boot system has its own set of failure modes. EDIT: the dumbest one I ran into was when I just couldn't figure out how to get into the BIOS. there wasn't any splash screen like you usually get where it says "press F{n}" (and why the fuck isn't that standardized anyway?). eventually I figured out it was because the monitor wasn't turning on quick enough to show the motherboard splash screen, so the system had already started the windows boot process by the time I got to see anything. I had to look up the right key for the motherboard online, and then press it blindly the next time I booted. EDIT: also doing this kind of stuff assumes you have another machine handy. you can use it as a "lifeboat" for your files, you can use it to burn USBs, look up documentation and so on. technical people tend to have a bunch of old machines lying around they can use in a pinch. but nontechnical people tend to only have one desktop/laptop. if they have anything else it's probably a phone or a tablet. if you only have one machine and you screw something up so you can't even boot, you're stuck in a catch-22. and then you need to take it to a PC repair place, and they'll just reinstall windows for you.
    - mikro2nd 4y ago
      Very true. I'd not thought about the "pre-installation" steps/prep. I take it all back.
elihu 4y ago
I don't doubt that apps installed by Lenovo are exacerbating the problem, but even with a clean install it's still Windows. I use Linux for a variety of reasons, some technical, some aesthetic, but mostly because the systems are usually designed to respect their users in a way that Windows and Android don't. Not that there aren't plenty of problems with Linux as well. They just tend to be usability shortcomings rather than design features that are personally offensive.

by oblio 4y ago

fsflover 4y ago

My non-technical relatives are using Linux just fine. They wouldn't be able to install it themselves though: I did it for them.

mikro2nd 4y ago
I don't know why they wouldn't be able to install it themselves, tbh. The last n times I've installed (various distros) the install process went something like: select keyboard layout, select locale/timzone, go away while it installs, reboot. There was nothing there to do unless you want to get into customising disk partitions or something.
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  I just helped my brother install Linux on an XPS 13. The main part he had trouble with was configuring the firmware to allow the installation, and then know about the new UEFI partition, and then forget about the no-longer-extant Windows boot partitions. It wasn't obvious how to make that work even for me.
  - fsflover 4y ago
    I had no problems like this with my installation. It's just that some people don't even know about bootable USB sticks - this level of "non-technical".
    - CoastalCoder 4y ago
      I thought I understood USB-stick bootability, but perhaps not well enough. Could you elaborate?
- _dain_ 4y ago
  >I don't know why they wouldn't be able to install it themselves, tbh. putting the ISO on the USB, telling the BIOS to boot from the USB, dealing with any random failures in grub or whatever, these are showstoppers for nontechnical people. (actually the grub failures are a showstopper for me as well, I've never been able to figure out what you're meant to do if you boot up and get an error at that stage. I just re-roll with a different USB drive or distro or ISO-burning tool and cross my fingers) also nontechnical ppl often will only dare use linux if they have windows as a fallback option, so they want to dual-boot. and setting up / maintaining a dual-boot system has its own set of failure modes. EDIT: the dumbest one I ran into was when I just couldn't figure out how to get into the BIOS. there wasn't any splash screen like you usually get where it says "press F{n}" (and why the fuck isn't that standardized anyway?). eventually I figured out it was because the monitor wasn't turning on quick enough to show the motherboard splash screen, so the system had already started the windows boot process by the time I got to see anything. I had to look up the right key for the motherboard online, and then press it blindly the next time I booted. EDIT: also doing this kind of stuff assumes you have another machine handy. you can use it as a "lifeboat" for your files, you can use it to burn USBs, look up documentation and so on. technical people tend to have a bunch of old machines lying around they can use in a pinch. but nontechnical people tend to only have one desktop/laptop. if they have anything else it's probably a phone or a tablet. if you only have one machine and you screw something up so you can't even boot, you're stuck in a catch-22. and then you need to take it to a PC repair place, and they'll just reinstall windows for you.
  - mikro2nd 4y ago
    Very true. I'd not thought about the "pre-installation" steps/prep. I take it all back.

elihu 4y ago

I don't doubt that apps installed by Lenovo are exacerbating the problem, but even with a clean install it's still Windows. I use Linux for a variety of reasons, some technical, some aesthetic, but mostly because the systems are usually designed to respect their users in a way that Windows and Android don't. Not that there aren't plenty of problems with Linux as well. They just tend to be usability shortcomings rather than design features that are personally offensive.