7 ms·

With 7.45% turnout, it's more of an elderly's bad joke. Elderly and wealthy people who have been brainwashed by television and want to continue using their murd

With 7.45% turnout, it's more of an elderly's bad joke. Elderly and wealthy people who have been brainwashed by television and want to continue using their murderous and polluting cars and taxis. Other people are more concerns by ecological problems and the rise in the pension age.

TylerE 4y ago
Rental escooters are a MENACE - and i'm not old either - just been nearly mown down by one several times.
- fsh 4y ago
  I have never had an issue despite living in a large european city. Maybe the reason is that, unlike some people, I don't blindly step into bike lanes.
  - anhner 4y ago
    lmao this guy thinks scooters only ride on bike lanes
    - TylerE 4y ago
      Usual HN cycling c-j on full display.
    - johannes1234321 4y ago
      Where there is proper infrastructure this works relatively okay. Where there is no infrastructure scooters take the pedastrian way as roads are dangerous.
      - Symbiote 4y ago
        Copenhagen banned rental scooters from the city centre. For some reason, people were finishing their ride and leaving the scooter in the bike lane, across the sidewalk, across a pedestrian crossing etc. The rental companies were intentionally blocking the sidewalk in the city centre, arranging the scooters in neat lines overnight. Presumably for visibility/advertising. All this happens to a much lesser extent with the SV-style ebike rental companies, though it's still not unusual to see those parked badly. It happens rarely with the manual bike rental company. I think they make you photograph the parked bike when you finish, so they are almost always in a bike rack.
      - MikusR 4y ago
        > Where there is proper infrastructure this works relatively okay. Thanks. Best joke i have heard in the last year.
- apichat 4y ago
  In Paris each years 90 persons are not "nearly mown down" by rental escooters but killed by cars, taxis and motorcycle. Plus thousands of people killed by toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    > Plus thousands of people killed by toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes. Please substantiate this claim. Thank you.
    - ggrelet 4y ago
      https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(20)30272-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5...
      - vetinari 4y ago
        Air polution != "toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes". That's only subset. Cities were dirty holes (including bad air) centuries before invention of cars. Continuing, they didn't measure anything. They estimated.
    - apichat 4y ago
      Have a good reading : In Paris, air pollution kills 5,400 people every year https://www-francebleu-fr.translate.goog/infos/transports/a-paris-la-pollution-automobile-tue-plus-de-2500-personnes-par-1611135291?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-francebleu-fr.translate.goog/infos/transports/a-... https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/transports/a-paris-la-pollution-automobile-tue-plus-de-2500-personnes-par-1611135291 https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/transports/a-paris-la-pollut... Air pollution is responsible for more than 5,000 deaths each year in Paris according to a study published on Wednesday. Published in the Lancet Planetary Health journal, it calculated premature deaths linked to PM2.5 fine particle pollution and nitrogen dioxide (NO2) in 1,000 European cities. The French capital appears to be one of the cities where automobile pollution kills the most.
- concordDance 4y ago
  Way less so than cars. They're just used by the young who don't vote.
- anhner 4y ago
  I agree, I don't know where other people live or if they go out at all in a major city, but scooters ride dangerously fast on sidewalks, in parks, even on the road alongside cars. I completely understand it's due to the lack of alternative riding infrastructure (ideally they would ride on bicycle lanes, but not everywhere is like The Netherlands), but you wouldn't ride a bike on a sidewalk, and riding on the road is very dangerous on these scooters. So yeah they're either a menace to pedestriands because they don't drive safely on pedestrian areas, or they're a menace to cars because they're very unstable on the roads and put themselves in danger, least of all because most people who ride them don't really know road legislation.
- ChrisRR 4y ago
  I hear so often from people who were "nearly" mown down, but barely ever from someone who was actually mown down
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Because they're dead?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - jjgreen 4y ago
    For Isabelle Vanbrabant, any regulations are too late. The pianist at Paris’s famed opera was coming home from work last month and walking across a square near Les Halles when a rider on an electric scooter came up from behind, knocking her over and continuing on his way. She fell on her right arm, suffering multiple fractures. She yelled for the rider to return, which he then did, and to call for help. However, her prognosis is uncertain. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/06/paris-taking-steps-to-crack-down-on-electric-scooter-providers https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/06/paris-taking-s...
    - ChrisRR 4y ago
      I don't doubt that there are plenty of examples of people being hit by scooters, and there's definitely even more examples of people being hit by cars. But I mean whenever people are giving their anecdotal evidence as to why they don't want scooters it's always because they were "almost" hit, I'd never read a comment from someone who was actually hit and almost is very subjective. When considering something like this we should really be looking at the data, rather than yelling about people who were almost hit
      - jjgreen 4y ago
        I've certainly almost been hit by scooters on the pavement, annoying but not scary since I'm reasonably fit, a hit probably wouldn't cause me that much of an injury (with luck). But if you're old and fragile, that's a broken hip and 6-9 months immobile when you've not much time left, that could reasonably scare the crap out of you and make you scared to go outside. "Almost hit" has consequences too.
helsinkiandrew 4y ago
> With 7.45% turnout, it's more of an elderly's bad joke. Elderly and wealthy people who have been brainwashed by television and want to continue using their murderous and polluting cars and taxis. I don't know about Paris, but the from other cities I've seen it's probably the general poor behaviour of rental scooter hirers that's the problem. Ignoring any dangerous riding the scooters are just so poorly parked - cluttering sidewalks, falling into roads etc. I'm an occasional e-scooter hirer when a tourist and sometimes after a night out in my home town, but I'm 50/50 if they should be banned in my city. Rental companies should take more of an effort to penalise users that park and drive poorly if they want to continue operating.
- alpaca128 4y ago
  The scooters are parked like that by the companies themselves too, at least where I live. Why would they penalize people for doing the same?
- apichat 4y ago
  > So poorly parked Cars are well parked in Paris but way more bulky and streets are unpleasant and dangerous because of them : https://www.google.com/maps/@48.8857511,2.3873659,3a,75y,80.49h,91.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sexm78hiwoguYGF9Sac6NmQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@48.8857511,2.3873659,3a,75y,80....
telmo 4y ago
I live in Berlin and my main mode of transportation is the bike, since before e-scooters were a thing. Bikes are very popular here and I do not actually know a lot of people who live in the city and own a car. E-scooter made life objectively harder for cyclists. They are abandoned in the middle of bike lanes and create danger, or in the spots were you could park your bike safely. They make every walking street worse, you are always bumping against them. And they seem to be mostly used by a young, well-off, highly entitled / inconsiderate demographic. They do nothing to improve life in the city. They are a toy that makes life worse for almost everyone. I can't wait for them to be banned here also.
- apichat 4y ago
  Well you might not know enough people to make a statistic. The modal share of car in Berlin is 26%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share Please first reduce by 95% the amount of car, taxi and motorcycle and then we'll talk about scooter.
  - telmo 4y ago
    > The modal share of car in Berlin is 26%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share Which is pretty low for a capital of a prosperous western country (order by that column and you will see). Maybe I do actually know enough people to make a statistic. Would I like it to be even lower? Sure. > Please first reduce by 95% the amount of car, taxi and motorcycle and then we'll talk about scooter. We are taking steps to reduce cars here. Let us do that AND TALK ABOUT SCOOTERS. The citizens decide what is important to them. Thanks.
lm28469 4y ago
I'd vote for e scooters if most people didn't behave like toddlers Not a day goes by without me having to remove 1-3 e scooters from my building sidewalk, which isn't even a public street, otherwise eldrely people or people with strollers can't pass through anymore
belorn 4y ago
There is a growing ecological problem with e-scooters ending up under water, especially in city rivers. If the ride sharing companies was liable for this and had to pay commercial divers to pick them up, the result would be identical to a ban of rental e-scooters. We used to have a similar problem with people dumping cars, but those are now very traceable and owners will get heavily fined if they leave a car in the water.
midasuni 4y ago
Maybe the other 92% should have turned out then?

TylerE 4y ago

Rental escooters are a MENACE - and i'm not old either - just been nearly mown down by one several times.

fsh 4y ago
I have never had an issue despite living in a large european city. Maybe the reason is that, unlike some people, I don't blindly step into bike lanes.
- anhner 4y ago
  lmao this guy thinks scooters only ride on bike lanes
  - TylerE 4y ago
    Usual HN cycling c-j on full display.
  - johannes1234321 4y ago
    Where there is proper infrastructure this works relatively okay. Where there is no infrastructure scooters take the pedastrian way as roads are dangerous.
    - Symbiote 4y ago
      Copenhagen banned rental scooters from the city centre. For some reason, people were finishing their ride and leaving the scooter in the bike lane, across the sidewalk, across a pedestrian crossing etc. The rental companies were intentionally blocking the sidewalk in the city centre, arranging the scooters in neat lines overnight. Presumably for visibility/advertising. All this happens to a much lesser extent with the SV-style ebike rental companies, though it's still not unusual to see those parked badly. It happens rarely with the manual bike rental company. I think they make you photograph the parked bike when you finish, so they are almost always in a bike rack.
    - MikusR 4y ago
      > Where there is proper infrastructure this works relatively okay. Thanks. Best joke i have heard in the last year.
apichat 4y ago
In Paris each years 90 persons are not "nearly mown down" by rental escooters but killed by cars, taxis and motorcycle. Plus thousands of people killed by toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes.
- vetinari 4y ago
  > Plus thousands of people killed by toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes. Please substantiate this claim. Thank you.
  - ggrelet 4y ago
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5196(20)30272-2/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5...
    - vetinari 4y ago
      Air polution != "toxic gases from cars, taxis and motorbikes". That's only subset. Cities were dirty holes (including bad air) centuries before invention of cars. Continuing, they didn't measure anything. They estimated.
  - apichat 4y ago
    Have a good reading : In Paris, air pollution kills 5,400 people every year https://www-francebleu-fr.translate.goog/infos/transports/a-paris-la-pollution-automobile-tue-plus-de-2500-personnes-par-1611135291?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-francebleu-fr.translate.goog/infos/transports/a-... https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/transports/a-paris-la-pollution-automobile-tue-plus-de-2500-personnes-par-1611135291 https://www.francebleu.fr/infos/transports/a-paris-la-pollut... Air pollution is responsible for more than 5,000 deaths each year in Paris according to a study published on Wednesday. Published in the Lancet Planetary Health journal, it calculated premature deaths linked to PM2.5 fine particle pollution and nitrogen dioxide (NO2) in 1,000 European cities. The French capital appears to be one of the cities where automobile pollution kills the most.
concordDance 4y ago
Way less so than cars. They're just used by the young who don't vote.
anhner 4y ago
I agree, I don't know where other people live or if they go out at all in a major city, but scooters ride dangerously fast on sidewalks, in parks, even on the road alongside cars. I completely understand it's due to the lack of alternative riding infrastructure (ideally they would ride on bicycle lanes, but not everywhere is like The Netherlands), but you wouldn't ride a bike on a sidewalk, and riding on the road is very dangerous on these scooters. So yeah they're either a menace to pedestriands because they don't drive safely on pedestrian areas, or they're a menace to cars because they're very unstable on the roads and put themselves in danger, least of all because most people who ride them don't really know road legislation.
ChrisRR 4y ago
I hear so often from people who were "nearly" mown down, but barely ever from someone who was actually mown down
- TylerE 4y ago
  Because they're dead?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jjgreen 4y ago
  For Isabelle Vanbrabant, any regulations are too late. The pianist at Paris’s famed opera was coming home from work last month and walking across a square near Les Halles when a rider on an electric scooter came up from behind, knocking her over and continuing on his way. She fell on her right arm, suffering multiple fractures. She yelled for the rider to return, which he then did, and to call for help. However, her prognosis is uncertain. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/06/paris-taking-steps-to-crack-down-on-electric-scooter-providers https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/06/paris-taking-s...
  - ChrisRR 4y ago
    I don't doubt that there are plenty of examples of people being hit by scooters, and there's definitely even more examples of people being hit by cars. But I mean whenever people are giving their anecdotal evidence as to why they don't want scooters it's always because they were "almost" hit, I'd never read a comment from someone who was actually hit and almost is very subjective. When considering something like this we should really be looking at the data, rather than yelling about people who were almost hit
    - jjgreen 4y ago
      I've certainly almost been hit by scooters on the pavement, annoying but not scary since I'm reasonably fit, a hit probably wouldn't cause me that much of an injury (with luck). But if you're old and fragile, that's a broken hip and 6-9 months immobile when you've not much time left, that could reasonably scare the crap out of you and make you scared to go outside. "Almost hit" has consequences too.

helsinkiandrew 4y ago

> With 7.45% turnout, it's more of an elderly's bad joke. Elderly and wealthy people who have been brainwashed by television and want to continue using their murderous and polluting cars and taxis. I don't know about Paris, but the from other cities I've seen it's probably the general poor behaviour of rental scooter hirers that's the problem. Ignoring any dangerous riding the scooters are just so poorly parked - cluttering sidewalks, falling into roads etc. I'm an occasional e-scooter hirer when a tourist and sometimes after a night out in my home town, but I'm 50/50 if they should be banned in my city. Rental companies should take more of an effort to penalise users that park and drive poorly if they want to continue operating.

alpaca128 4y ago
The scooters are parked like that by the companies themselves too, at least where I live. Why would they penalize people for doing the same?
apichat 4y ago
> So poorly parked Cars are well parked in Paris but way more bulky and streets are unpleasant and dangerous because of them : https://www.google.com/maps/@48.8857511,2.3873659,3a,75y,80.49h,91.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sexm78hiwoguYGF9Sac6NmQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@48.8857511,2.3873659,3a,75y,80....

telmo 4y ago

I live in Berlin and my main mode of transportation is the bike, since before e-scooters were a thing. Bikes are very popular here and I do not actually know a lot of people who live in the city and own a car. E-scooter made life objectively harder for cyclists. They are abandoned in the middle of bike lanes and create danger, or in the spots were you could park your bike safely. They make every walking street worse, you are always bumping against them. And they seem to be mostly used by a young, well-off, highly entitled / inconsiderate demographic. They do nothing to improve life in the city. They are a toy that makes life worse for almost everyone. I can't wait for them to be banned here also.

apichat 4y ago
Well you might not know enough people to make a statistic. The modal share of car in Berlin is 26%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share Please first reduce by 95% the amount of car, taxi and motorcycle and then we'll talk about scooter.
- telmo 4y ago
  > The modal share of car in Berlin is 26%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share Which is pretty low for a capital of a prosperous western country (order by that column and you will see). Maybe I do actually know enough people to make a statistic. Would I like it to be even lower? Sure. > Please first reduce by 95% the amount of car, taxi and motorcycle and then we'll talk about scooter. We are taking steps to reduce cars here. Let us do that AND TALK ABOUT SCOOTERS. The citizens decide what is important to them. Thanks.

lm28469 4y ago

I'd vote for e scooters if most people didn't behave like toddlers Not a day goes by without me having to remove 1-3 e scooters from my building sidewalk, which isn't even a public street, otherwise eldrely people or people with strollers can't pass through anymore

belorn 4y ago

There is a growing ecological problem with e-scooters ending up under water, especially in city rivers. If the ride sharing companies was liable for this and had to pay commercial divers to pick them up, the result would be identical to a ban of rental e-scooters. We used to have a similar problem with people dumping cars, but those are now very traceable and owners will get heavily fined if they leave a car in the water.

midasuni 4y ago

Maybe the other 92% should have turned out then?