5 ms·

> but no matter how much I love it, Linux is janky. To be honest though, so is Windows (in certain aspects). I believe that someone who works with Linux every

by hooby 4y ago

> but no matter how much I love it, Linux is janky. To be honest though, so is Windows (in certain aspects). I believe that someone who works with Linux every day, gets used to certain stuff being janky and no longer notices it - just like someon working with Windows every day gets used to the jank found there, and no longer notices it. It's only when you are used to one system and switch over to the other, that you notice the jank - because it's a degradation from your normal experience. I've been using Mint for years now (and a few years of Ubuntu before that, and a single year of OSX before that, and many years of Windows before that). Despite still having a Windows PC for gaming which I use regularly - I've grown accustomed to Linux enough, that trying to use Windows professionally causes me pain. For example: I'm so used to package managers these days, that the practice of installing software by going to a website, downloading a downloader which downloads an installer that installs an updater... all the while having to agree to various long and complicated EULAs and T&Cs, and also having to take care that no unwanted "bundled" software comes along... these days this seems just utterly absurd to me - but back when I was a Windows user, this was just normal - and having to do `sudo apt install the-thing-I-want` instead, would have seemed completely arcane and stupid to me.

Arn_Thor 4y ago
I think a key difference is the type of jank we're talking about. In Windows, non-tech-savy users can get by. Most have never ever had to type a command, and it would paralyze them. Love it or hate it, the maddening level of clicks and menus it takes to get stuff done in Windows (or Mac OS) also makes it understandable to much more people. A CLI is just a much higher barrier for most people than memorizing a series of menu clicks.
- hooby 4y ago
  What you are saying was true at some point in the past - but Linux has come a very long way since then, and the system UIs of many distributions these days are pretty slick, and do offer graphical settings windows for everything a non tech-savvy user ever needs. Ask my 80 y.o., non-tech-savvy dad, who after struggling with Windows for years, is really happy with his Laptop running on Linux now. The amount of calls I get from him needing help with his machine has gone down to a fraction of what it was before.
apatheticonion 4y ago
Honestly, Chrome is the only thing I have beef with on Linux. I think I could say that it's the only major gripe for me at this stage. Chrome on Linux feels like an afterthought. Even when it's set to use the Wayland renderer, dragging tabs doesn't work, scroll feels off, the window decorations don't resemble Chrome on Win/MacOS, nor do they feel native to Linux (in my case GTK and Gnome). I have actually been raising bugs with the Chrome team on Linux issues, they closed the scroll speed bug not long ago - only took a year after I opened the ticket :laugh: Though I am biased, I have a real soft spot for Linux and love how productive I am on it so I will look favourably on it. Other than that - The file manager on Gnome/Fedora is nowhere near as powerful as the Windows file explorer - but it's about on par with MacOS's finder so the bar is pretty low there. Aside from the installer, Fedora is actually pretty smooth when the stars align on your hardware. I can imagine it being a not terrible experience for a non tech savvy person - but I feel like I have been in the game so long I am out of touch with what it feels like to not be tech savvy
Stibinator 4y ago
Check out chocolatey. It's the package manager that Windows lacks.
- hooby 4y ago
  Will do. Thanks for the tip! Can't imagine it is able to update your kernel though ;) But the package manger is just one single example. There's many such things... I'm just too lazy to work out a whole list. But I'll give you one more example: When I run into an error message on Linux, I often get some cryptic error message - and when I google that, most times I come across an explanation and solution to exactly my problem. The instructions often involve bash commands - not very beginner friendly - but when going through the explanations you actually learn something and understand your system better. When I run into an error message on Windows it's most often of the "An Error occurred" variety, which are an absolute nightmare to google (mostly leading to "fix-your-pc" software scams). And when I finally manage to figure out the right question to google (which requires you to be tech-savvy) - I get step-by-step instructions with screenshots that just don't match my version of Windows... and since the instructions don't contain an explanation, I learn nothing. And the good instructions that actually work... those often again require the use of power shell! But thanks for mentioning chocolatey!
- earthling8118 4y ago
  Firmer chocolatey user here. It did the job but was a far cry from a Linux package manager. I use winget now instead when I have to use Windows. Still prefer Linux.
DrBazza 4y ago
> > but no matter how much I love it, Linux is janky. > To be honest though, so is Windows (in certain aspects). Stockholm syndrome. I think people are so inured to Windows now, that people don't see the problems.

by hooby 4y ago

Arn_Thor 4y ago

I think a key difference is the type of jank we're talking about. In Windows, non-tech-savy users can get by. Most have never ever had to type a command, and it would paralyze them. Love it or hate it, the maddening level of clicks and menus it takes to get stuff done in Windows (or Mac OS) also makes it understandable to much more people. A CLI is just a much higher barrier for most people than memorizing a series of menu clicks.

hooby 4y ago
What you are saying was true at some point in the past - but Linux has come a very long way since then, and the system UIs of many distributions these days are pretty slick, and do offer graphical settings windows for everything a non tech-savvy user ever needs. Ask my 80 y.o., non-tech-savvy dad, who after struggling with Windows for years, is really happy with his Laptop running on Linux now. The amount of calls I get from him needing help with his machine has gone down to a fraction of what it was before.

apatheticonion 4y ago

Honestly, Chrome is the only thing I have beef with on Linux. I think I could say that it's the only major gripe for me at this stage. Chrome on Linux feels like an afterthought. Even when it's set to use the Wayland renderer, dragging tabs doesn't work, scroll feels off, the window decorations don't resemble Chrome on Win/MacOS, nor do they feel native to Linux (in my case GTK and Gnome). I have actually been raising bugs with the Chrome team on Linux issues, they closed the scroll speed bug not long ago - only took a year after I opened the ticket :laugh: Though I am biased, I have a real soft spot for Linux and love how productive I am on it so I will look favourably on it. Other than that - The file manager on Gnome/Fedora is nowhere near as powerful as the Windows file explorer - but it's about on par with MacOS's finder so the bar is pretty low there. Aside from the installer, Fedora is actually pretty smooth when the stars align on your hardware. I can imagine it being a not terrible experience for a non tech savvy person - but I feel like I have been in the game so long I am out of touch with what it feels like to not be tech savvy

Stibinator 4y ago

Check out chocolatey. It's the package manager that Windows lacks.

hooby 4y ago
Will do. Thanks for the tip! Can't imagine it is able to update your kernel though ;) But the package manger is just one single example. There's many such things... I'm just too lazy to work out a whole list. But I'll give you one more example: When I run into an error message on Linux, I often get some cryptic error message - and when I google that, most times I come across an explanation and solution to exactly my problem. The instructions often involve bash commands - not very beginner friendly - but when going through the explanations you actually learn something and understand your system better. When I run into an error message on Windows it's most often of the "An Error occurred" variety, which are an absolute nightmare to google (mostly leading to "fix-your-pc" software scams). And when I finally manage to figure out the right question to google (which requires you to be tech-savvy) - I get step-by-step instructions with screenshots that just don't match my version of Windows... and since the instructions don't contain an explanation, I learn nothing. And the good instructions that actually work... those often again require the use of power shell! But thanks for mentioning chocolatey!
earthling8118 4y ago
Firmer chocolatey user here. It did the job but was a far cry from a Linux package manager. I use winget now instead when I have to use Windows. Still prefer Linux.

DrBazza 4y ago

> > but no matter how much I love it, Linux is janky. > To be honest though, so is Windows (in certain aspects). Stockholm syndrome. I think people are so inured to Windows now, that people don't see the problems.