3 ms·

If I may point out here that if we take the word "democracy" at face value (i.e. That the ruling entity needs to have the support of the majority of demos) then

by sakisv 4y ago

If I may point out here that if we take the word "democracy" at face value (i.e. That the ruling entity needs to have the support of the majority of demos) then most countries are really not democratically governed: The people in charge get voted in by a minority of the people who go to vote - which gets even worse if you account for people who are eligible to vote but abstain.

HWR_14 4y ago
> The people in charge get voted in by a minority of the people who go to vote Except for a couple examples in the US, I'm not aware of democratic countries where this has actually occurred. And in the US, it's not a common occurrence.
- andreiii 4y ago
  in almost any election in every European country the voter presence is 50% or below. I think that's what the comment was about... is just a small % of people that participate in voting and even smaller percentage that votes for the winner.
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    The quote I responded to was explicitly about a minority of people who opted into voting. Other parts of the comment included nonvoters, but that's a different discussion.
  - suddenclarity 4y ago
    Average voter participation is 65% in european countries.
  - ElFitz 4y ago
    > the voter presence is 50% or below What do you mean by "voter presence"? And 50% of what? Of registered voters? Of people eligible to vote? Because statistics would beg to differ. [^1] It might hold for european elections [^2], as almost nobody seems to care about those, leading to a low turnout, but that definitely isn’t true about national elections. [1]: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/11/these-countries-have-some-of-the-highest-voter-turnout-in-the-world/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/11/these-countries-have-... [2]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/05/27/european-elections-where-voter-turnout-was-highest-and-lowest-infographic/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/05/27/europe...
- TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
  Surely you've heard of Australia? This paper discusses minority governments in Australia between 1989 and 2009, a period of two decades in which there have been at least ten examples of this political phenomenon in the Australian States and Territories. https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/researchpapers/Pages/minority-governments-in-australia-1989-2009-acco.aspx https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/researchpapers/Pages/minor... If I was paying any attention at all recently it was on the fact that we've had at least a few minority governments since 2009 also. Finland is having a minority government now too: With all of the votes counted on Sunday, the right-wing National Coalition party (NCP) won 20.8% of the vote, with the populist, nation-first Finns party scoring 20.1%. Marin’s SDP took 19.9% of the vote. Voter turnout was 71.9%. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/02/sanna-marin-finland-election-sdp-social-democratic-national-coalition https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/02/sanna-marin-fi...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
throwaway29812 4y ago
> (i.e. That the ruling entity needs to have the support of the majority of demos) There is nothing undemocratic about federalist republics. Or parliamentary democracies that require coalitions to rule. They are simply different kinds of democracy.

by sakisv 4y ago

HWR_14 4y ago

> The people in charge get voted in by a minority of the people who go to vote Except for a couple examples in the US, I'm not aware of democratic countries where this has actually occurred. And in the US, it's not a common occurrence.

andreiii 4y ago
in almost any election in every European country the voter presence is 50% or below. I think that's what the comment was about... is just a small % of people that participate in voting and even smaller percentage that votes for the winner.
- HWR_14 4y ago
  The quote I responded to was explicitly about a minority of people who opted into voting. Other parts of the comment included nonvoters, but that's a different discussion.
- suddenclarity 4y ago
  Average voter participation is 65% in european countries.
- ElFitz 4y ago
  > the voter presence is 50% or below What do you mean by "voter presence"? And 50% of what? Of registered voters? Of people eligible to vote? Because statistics would beg to differ. [^1] It might hold for european elections [^2], as almost nobody seems to care about those, leading to a low turnout, but that definitely isn’t true about national elections. [1]: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/11/these-countries-have-some-of-the-highest-voter-turnout-in-the-world/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/11/these-countries-have-... [2]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/05/27/european-elections-where-voter-turnout-was-highest-and-lowest-infographic/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/05/27/europe...
TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
Surely you've heard of Australia? This paper discusses minority governments in Australia between 1989 and 2009, a period of two decades in which there have been at least ten examples of this political phenomenon in the Australian States and Territories. https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/researchpapers/Pages/minority-governments-in-australia-1989-2009-acco.aspx https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/researchpapers/Pages/minor... If I was paying any attention at all recently it was on the fact that we've had at least a few minority governments since 2009 also. Finland is having a minority government now too: With all of the votes counted on Sunday, the right-wing National Coalition party (NCP) won 20.8% of the vote, with the populist, nation-first Finns party scoring 20.1%. Marin’s SDP took 19.9% of the vote. Voter turnout was 71.9%. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/02/sanna-marin-finland-election-sdp-social-democratic-national-coalition https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/02/sanna-marin-fi...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

throwaway29812 4y ago

> (i.e. That the ruling entity needs to have the support of the majority of demos) There is nothing undemocratic about federalist republics. Or parliamentary democracies that require coalitions to rule. They are simply different kinds of democracy.