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> totalitarian and fascist societies A few books helped me frame this stuff far better than I was able to before. This was the one I started with[0]. Framing i

> totalitarian and fascist societies A few books helped me frame this stuff far better than I was able to before. This was the one I started with[0]. Framing isn't a fix or a prevention, but it has helped me to adjust actions and expectations much more tailored for the situation. I am not looking forward to that crocodile remark: "I just want to be sure your child is safe." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_Freedom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_from_Freedom

StrangeATractor 4y ago
Just came in here to say that Fromm is great. Highly recommended.
atoav 4y ago
As an outside observer, the single most disturbing trend in the US is the fact that everybody seemingly feels totally entitled to police each other's lives. My personal religious believe frowns uppon $X? That means $X should now be illegal for everybody. I believe without evidence your kids are constantly unsafe: let me call the police on them. It is okay not to like what your neighbours are doing. It is okay (and maybe even necessary) to discuss this with them. But it is not okay to call the police on them or force them by law to your believes. And that in a nation where your cent piece had "Mind your business" written on it.
- zpeti 4y ago
  It’s the Protestant Puritanism of American culture getting stronger. It’s the same with the so called woke religion, it’s just a repackaging of Puritanism. Just like any culture there are many parts of the American one, but the part that comes from adventure, exploration, freedom etc definitely has been on the decline since about the 70-80s. Control and Puritanism is what’s stronger now. Personally I hope it swings back at some point.
  - whythre 4y ago
    It’s all paternalistic authoritarianism… but the logic is consistent- if the majority of people think we should police how adults act and think, well, children should absolutely, unconditionally be micromanaged! The poor little fools might get hurt and then someone will get sued.
    - atoav 4y ago
      Don't get me wrong here, but I don't think what you (perhaps sarcastically?) state here is a good idea. If all adults agree to build mechanized genocidal murder factories that will remain a stain on humanity for centuries it is still wrong to do so. Some rights are non-negotiable to my eyes. Even (or maybe especially) when a democratic majority decides to break them. Legality doesn't matter here. The concentration camps next to where I grew up were also legal during Nazi reign. That doesn't make them right, not back then, not now and not in the future. I'd highly advise against a petty "let's se where that gets them"-stance when it comes to human rights issues, because those paying the price are not those who commit the atrocities.
than3 4y ago
Thanks for the recommendation. I hadn't heard about this book, and I'm always looking for new books that help frame problems better. Just based off what I saw regarding this, its probably not the best as a starter book. It can really be tough with this type of material because if you don't have a solid practical or rigorous approach to both logic and argumentation, and can reasonably make parallels or see where it leads, you can easily fall into traps that are plausible but may be flawed/false. You really have to approach this type of material critically and assume its false until you can find rational and reasonable support for what may be said. Reading material in this genre, like you would a leisure book would be a mistake, since most tend to internalize words/concepts like movies after speed picks up, and of course children that have not yet reached the age of reason shouldn't be reading this type of material since they would be developmentally incapable of recognizing any potential lies for what they might be. Not having read the book yet I can't yet vouch for the content, but it definitely looks interesting, and worth a read, at least for me. You really have to know the philosophy and tactics that are pushed in this area in order to recognize it enough to defend against it. There was a very interesting recent publication in USMC University on Political Warfare which has some overlap.
pharmakom 4y ago
Thank you for sharing this. I have experienced this cycling without a helmet (as is my right) from aggressive motorists. Now I have a term for the phenomenon!

StrangeATractor 4y ago

Just came in here to say that Fromm is great. Highly recommended.

atoav 4y ago

As an outside observer, the single most disturbing trend in the US is the fact that everybody seemingly feels totally entitled to police each other's lives. My personal religious believe frowns uppon $X? That means $X should now be illegal for everybody. I believe without evidence your kids are constantly unsafe: let me call the police on them. It is okay not to like what your neighbours are doing. It is okay (and maybe even necessary) to discuss this with them. But it is not okay to call the police on them or force them by law to your believes. And that in a nation where your cent piece had "Mind your business" written on it.

zpeti 4y ago
It’s the Protestant Puritanism of American culture getting stronger. It’s the same with the so called woke religion, it’s just a repackaging of Puritanism. Just like any culture there are many parts of the American one, but the part that comes from adventure, exploration, freedom etc definitely has been on the decline since about the 70-80s. Control and Puritanism is what’s stronger now. Personally I hope it swings back at some point.
- whythre 4y ago
  It’s all paternalistic authoritarianism… but the logic is consistent- if the majority of people think we should police how adults act and think, well, children should absolutely, unconditionally be micromanaged! The poor little fools might get hurt and then someone will get sued.
  - atoav 4y ago
    Don't get me wrong here, but I don't think what you (perhaps sarcastically?) state here is a good idea. If all adults agree to build mechanized genocidal murder factories that will remain a stain on humanity for centuries it is still wrong to do so. Some rights are non-negotiable to my eyes. Even (or maybe especially) when a democratic majority decides to break them. Legality doesn't matter here. The concentration camps next to where I grew up were also legal during Nazi reign. That doesn't make them right, not back then, not now and not in the future. I'd highly advise against a petty "let's se where that gets them"-stance when it comes to human rights issues, because those paying the price are not those who commit the atrocities.

than3 4y ago

Thanks for the recommendation. I hadn't heard about this book, and I'm always looking for new books that help frame problems better. Just based off what I saw regarding this, its probably not the best as a starter book. It can really be tough with this type of material because if you don't have a solid practical or rigorous approach to both logic and argumentation, and can reasonably make parallels or see where it leads, you can easily fall into traps that are plausible but may be flawed/false. You really have to approach this type of material critically and assume its false until you can find rational and reasonable support for what may be said. Reading material in this genre, like you would a leisure book would be a mistake, since most tend to internalize words/concepts like movies after speed picks up, and of course children that have not yet reached the age of reason shouldn't be reading this type of material since they would be developmentally incapable of recognizing any potential lies for what they might be. Not having read the book yet I can't yet vouch for the content, but it definitely looks interesting, and worth a read, at least for me. You really have to know the philosophy and tactics that are pushed in this area in order to recognize it enough to defend against it. There was a very interesting recent publication in USMC University on Political Warfare which has some overlap.

pharmakom 4y ago

Thank you for sharing this. I have experienced this cycling without a helmet (as is my right) from aggressive motorists. Now I have a term for the phenomenon!