4 ms·

I think this is mostly a problem in the united states. I'm from Europe, and everytime I visit USA I am struck by how huge most of the cars are. Like, why?

prawn 4y ago
I'm in Australia and older car formats like sedans and station wagons seem unfashionable now. SUVs and 4WDs seem much more common and are enough to present a risk to children and sightlines, IMO. There are some of the very large US-style trucks, but nowhere near as many as in the US.
- smdyc1 4y ago
  I'm also in Australia, and it's gotten a bit ridiculous. There are now utes the size of American Ford F350s everywhere. Our streets and parking infrastructure are just not designed for it. It's become an arms race. You're now much safer if you drive a bigger car and you can see the road ahead much better than if you drive a Corolla.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    Safer for yourself maybe, if you're a careful driver. Larger vehicles tend to have a higher center of gravity, so may roll more easily. They also tend to be more dangerous for family, and neighbors nearby.
- jpgvm 4y ago
  In Melbourne they have taken to calling them Emotional Support Vehicles. I think it's a pretty apt name for a vehicle that has no practical purpose in a city.
simonsarris 4y ago
Lots of people will blame consumers for wanting to feel macho or whatever but I think probably a bit more institutional than that: 1. Obama-era CAFE fuel standard rules made required MPG go up over time for different classes of vehicle. Except if your vehicle had a larger footprint, it had more lenient standards. The simplest way to stay compliant was to make larger vehicles. I think if they wanted the actually-desired outcome they should have just raised the federal gasoline tax, which has not been raised since the 90's, but they probably assumed that was untenable so we are left with unintended consequences. 2. The IIHS produces crash test ratings that manufacturers tout here and does not score cars worse if they are more dangerous to pedestrians. Nor do they take into account the other car in the collision. So to get excellent ratings makes an arms race of bigger-ness. Automakers started adding a lot of weight to vehicles, and side/curtain airbags that made the A-pillar larger (Between door window and windshield). Even formerly small cars now feel huge. It's hard to buy a truly small truck anymore.
- qball 4y ago
  >side/curtain airbags that made the A-pillar larger Even cars of the mid-2000s have this pillar sufficiently large to completely block the view of pedestrians and vehicles under certain conditions. This is, I'd argue, a contributing factor in the modern preference for taller vehicles- the visibility is equally poor, but being higher up lets people believe they can see more out front and they "win" in sightline contests with other cars. >Automakers started adding a lot of weight to vehicles Note also that electric cars in particular are significantly heavier than combustion ones; as such they take more effort to stop and are even more dangerous to other cars in crashes. Oh, and since electric cars are inherently heavier, the roof has to be stronger to maintain the same rollover protection, which also means the A-pillars and blind spots will continue to get larger. >they should have just raised the federal gasoline tax If you do that you run into price-sensitive agricultural users. Other countries exempt those users with marked gas to detect tax fraud, but that requires legislative action (marked gas is illegal in the US) and new infrastructure to support it to the point where it might not have been worth it. Also, the chicken tax means unless the light truck is domestically produced it's not worth it, so only a select few automakers could really make a run at it (especially in the context of safety requirements that don't scale).
eru 4y ago
Part of it is regulatory arbitrage. Because of some historical accidents (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax) normal cars are regulated more tightly than SUVs in the US. That makes SUVs cheaper to produce. So people, like families, that needed a big car moved from station wagons to SUVs. The rest is more historical accidents and consumer preferences. (Some of the regulations in question here are really silly. Especially the CAFE standards which are ostensibly supposed to regulate emissions. But they do it in a really round-about way. A sane way to regulate emissions is to tax emissions like a CO2, or something that directly correlates with producing more emissions (like a petrol tax). Instead the US goes the insane route: CAFE standards take an average of the vehicles produced by a company, and give companies some incentives based on that average. Of course, they also add extra loopholes, like the SUV exemption. SUVs also get exemptions for passenger and pedestrian safety standards.)
- thiht 4y ago
  > SUVs also get exemptions for passenger and pedestrian safety standards. Wtf? What's the rationale behind this?
  - eru 4y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo goes a bit into the details. Basically, the originally justification was that stuff like farm trucks shouldn't be burdened by extra regulations. Public choice theory explains where it went from there.
Sophistifunk 4y ago
Because in the 90s in California, body-on-frame small trucks were immune from some emissions and safety requirements, making it the only way to get a powerful v8 as well as a great way for GM and Ford to save a few bucks. Follow that up with 30 years of monkey-see-monkey-buy, and here we are.
xboxnolifes 4y ago
It's covered partially in the video, but essentially: bad regulations and emission regulatory loopholes.
petodo 4y ago
Traffic is definitely problem in Europe as well and main reason I am affraid to let my kids roam free, you don't need to have large pick up truck to kill kid driving faster than speed limit or not paying attention to driving.
dariusj18 4y ago
The video nails it for my reasoning. There are too many other large cars on the road, so a normal sized car can't see well enough and is less safe.

prawn 4y ago

I'm in Australia and older car formats like sedans and station wagons seem unfashionable now. SUVs and 4WDs seem much more common and are enough to present a risk to children and sightlines, IMO. There are some of the very large US-style trucks, but nowhere near as many as in the US.

smdyc1 4y ago
I'm also in Australia, and it's gotten a bit ridiculous. There are now utes the size of American Ford F350s everywhere. Our streets and parking infrastructure are just not designed for it. It's become an arms race. You're now much safer if you drive a bigger car and you can see the road ahead much better than if you drive a Corolla.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Safer for yourself maybe, if you're a careful driver. Larger vehicles tend to have a higher center of gravity, so may roll more easily. They also tend to be more dangerous for family, and neighbors nearby.
jpgvm 4y ago
In Melbourne they have taken to calling them Emotional Support Vehicles. I think it's a pretty apt name for a vehicle that has no practical purpose in a city.

simonsarris 4y ago

Lots of people will blame consumers for wanting to feel macho or whatever but I think probably a bit more institutional than that: 1. Obama-era CAFE fuel standard rules made required MPG go up over time for different classes of vehicle. Except if your vehicle had a larger footprint, it had more lenient standards. The simplest way to stay compliant was to make larger vehicles. I think if they wanted the actually-desired outcome they should have just raised the federal gasoline tax, which has not been raised since the 90's, but they probably assumed that was untenable so we are left with unintended consequences. 2. The IIHS produces crash test ratings that manufacturers tout here and does not score cars worse if they are more dangerous to pedestrians. Nor do they take into account the other car in the collision. So to get excellent ratings makes an arms race of bigger-ness. Automakers started adding a lot of weight to vehicles, and side/curtain airbags that made the A-pillar larger (Between door window and windshield). Even formerly small cars now feel huge. It's hard to buy a truly small truck anymore.

qball 4y ago
>side/curtain airbags that made the A-pillar larger Even cars of the mid-2000s have this pillar sufficiently large to completely block the view of pedestrians and vehicles under certain conditions. This is, I'd argue, a contributing factor in the modern preference for taller vehicles- the visibility is equally poor, but being higher up lets people believe they can see more out front and they "win" in sightline contests with other cars. >Automakers started adding a lot of weight to vehicles Note also that electric cars in particular are significantly heavier than combustion ones; as such they take more effort to stop and are even more dangerous to other cars in crashes. Oh, and since electric cars are inherently heavier, the roof has to be stronger to maintain the same rollover protection, which also means the A-pillars and blind spots will continue to get larger. >they should have just raised the federal gasoline tax If you do that you run into price-sensitive agricultural users. Other countries exempt those users with marked gas to detect tax fraud, but that requires legislative action (marked gas is illegal in the US) and new infrastructure to support it to the point where it might not have been worth it. Also, the chicken tax means unless the light truck is domestically produced it's not worth it, so only a select few automakers could really make a run at it (especially in the context of safety requirements that don't scale).

eru 4y ago

Part of it is regulatory arbitrage. Because of some historical accidents (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax) normal cars are regulated more tightly than SUVs in the US. That makes SUVs cheaper to produce. So people, like families, that needed a big car moved from station wagons to SUVs. The rest is more historical accidents and consumer preferences. (Some of the regulations in question here are really silly. Especially the CAFE standards which are ostensibly supposed to regulate emissions. But they do it in a really round-about way. A sane way to regulate emissions is to tax emissions like a CO2, or something that directly correlates with producing more emissions (like a petrol tax). Instead the US goes the insane route: CAFE standards take an average of the vehicles produced by a company, and give companies some incentives based on that average. Of course, they also add extra loopholes, like the SUV exemption. SUVs also get exemptions for passenger and pedestrian safety standards.)

thiht 4y ago
> SUVs also get exemptions for passenger and pedestrian safety standards. Wtf? What's the rationale behind this?
- eru 4y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN7mSXMruEo goes a bit into the details. Basically, the originally justification was that stuff like farm trucks shouldn't be burdened by extra regulations. Public choice theory explains where it went from there.

Sophistifunk 4y ago

Because in the 90s in California, body-on-frame small trucks were immune from some emissions and safety requirements, making it the only way to get a powerful v8 as well as a great way for GM and Ford to save a few bucks. Follow that up with 30 years of monkey-see-monkey-buy, and here we are.

xboxnolifes 4y ago

It's covered partially in the video, but essentially: bad regulations and emission regulatory loopholes.

petodo 4y ago

Traffic is definitely problem in Europe as well and main reason I am affraid to let my kids roam free, you don't need to have large pick up truck to kill kid driving faster than speed limit or not paying attention to driving.

dariusj18 4y ago

The video nails it for my reasoning. There are too many other large cars on the road, so a normal sized car can't see well enough and is less safe.