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> despite the extra up front cost, apple stuff is a better value What extra up front cost? The Macbook Air costs $799 at BestBuy. Do you mean to say a similar

> despite the extra up front cost, apple stuff is a better value What extra up front cost? The Macbook Air costs $799 at BestBuy. Do you mean to say a similar quality Windows machine costs less? Only Samsung makes computers that are comparable to the Macbook. This Samsung [2] arguably has a better screen but costs $1450. (There are cheaper Samsungs but they don't have 200% screen resolution.) [1] https://www.bestbuy.com/site/macbook-air-13-3-laptop-apple-m1-chip-8gb-memory-256gb-ssd-space-gray/5721600.p?skuId=5721600 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/macbook-air-13-3-laptop-apple-m... [2] https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-galaxy-book3-pro-14-3k-amoled-laptop-intel-13th-gen-evo-core-i7-1360p-16gb-memory-512-gb-ssd-graphite/6531065.p?skuId=6531065 https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-galaxy-book3-pro-14-3k-...

danaris 4y ago
> Do you mean to say a similar quality Windows machine costs less? These days, the extra cost is (mostly) for the quality. (Some of it is also for some of the capabilities, which a given user may not need all of, but the selection is very limited.) So much of the time, when people are comparing a Mac to a PC on price and complaining that the Mac is overpriced, they're comparing it to a PC whose build quality is very obviously inferior. For them, that may not matter, because they're fully price-focused, or because they're only planning on having it for 2-3 years anyway, or because they just don't believe that build quality matters...but it's still a real thing, and it does make a difference for many people.
- eastbound 4y ago
  The opening test: Open a PC laptop, the keyboard obnoxiously holds on to the screen to about 10cm, at which point your grip fails and it slams against the table. That’s all the treatment it deserves, and the rest of your experience will be similar; It may sound like a joke but there are many situations where this is useful: When you’re on the phone, when you’re in bed, when you’re holding the power adaptor in the other hand, etc.
AdeptusAquinas 4y ago
Hmm, I'd say the Surface line are the direct competitors, and have real nice quality. Better keyboards and a nicer screen form factor 3:2. Was quite a fan of the Surface Book 2, and recently picked up a Laptop Go which is great, for less than a Macbook Air.
- petilon 4y ago
  Surface Laptop 5 costs $899. Still no sign of "extra up-front cost" of Apple. For me, Surface Laptop isn't even in the running because of poor screen resolution. The old Surface Book has 3000x2000 resolution which is 200%, but the Surface Laptops have 2256x1504 resolution, which is only 150%. As Steve Jobs said when he introduced iPhone 4, the only resolution that looks good after 100% is 200%. I have tested screens with 150% and 300% resolutions, and they all have display artifacts (such as horizontal 1-pixel horizontal lines appearing to have different widths).
  - AdeptusAquinas 4y ago
    I think Mac and surfaces are in the same price bracket definitely. My surface book was a cool 4k in NZD when I grabbed it, comparative to a similar MacBook pro.
    - timcederman 4y ago
      You were being asked about Surface vs Macbook Air - why're you bringing MacBook Pro into it? There's no extra upfront cost for Apple. It is mind boggling how good a computer you can get for USD$800 from Apple compared to anything else on the market.
      - AdeptusAquinas 4y ago
        No I wasn't, but if I was it works like this: Surface Go = iPad, same rough price and specs, Surface Laptop Go, Surface Laptop vs Macbook Air or low-end Macbook Pro, same rough price (Laptop Go is a few hundred cheaper), Surface Book vs medium-high-end Macbook Pro, same rough price. Right now a entry level Macbook Air in NZ is ~1600, 1400 on special, and a Surface Laptop Go 2 is ~1400. Same size, same ram, same hdd, higher res on the air, touch screen on the surface, m1 on the air, intel x64 on the surface, basically same target market.
rekabis 4y ago
> What extra up front cost? The Macbook Air costs $799 at BestBuy. Only if you go with the absolute lowest specs. Which means you cannot upgrade them and will have to chuck that MacBook Air much sooner than any Windows laptop because it’s unable to keep up with you. Maxing out the specs on any Apple hardware is practically required for maximizing usable lifespan, and unfortunately, represents a massive barrier to entry for a majority of people. Since these products are not upgradable after the fact (as most Windows systems are), you have to choose between a much shorter expected lifespan or a much more expensive product. For example, I can easily put together a Windows machine for $3,000 that can do much the same things that a $2,000 Mac Mini can. But get the entry-level Mac Mini, and any Windows machine which matches that price is relevant for more than twice the time span thanks to its ability to be upgraded.
- Nursie 4y ago
  This is not really true. While the base spec won't meet all needs, you don't need to max out the spec to get a usable machine with a long life.
  - newaccount74 4y ago
    Yeah, but the base models really are crippled by a lack of storage. I've had to help a couple of family members with their 128GB Macs and 16GB iPhones and I hated every second of it. I bought my partner a Macbook with maxed out storage just so I don't have to deal with that shit again.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      I don't think they sell 128GB macs any more do they? They shouldn't! 512GB seems to have been enough for me for the last ten years or so, if I need more storage than that, it goes on a different machine or cloud storage of some form. I haven't found it restrictive at all. I had my 2013 MBP (i5/8/512) in active use until 2020 when lockdown hit and I stopped needing a laptop for a while. Now I'm on a M1/16/512 Air, and two years in I'm still very happy with it. Hopefully I'll get 7 years out of this one too.
spaceman_2020 4y ago
Yeah the latest M1/M2 Macbooks have made them a nobrainer. I can’t find any laptops in my country with the same screen resolution, brightness, weight, and trackpad combo as a base Macbook for a cheaper price. My wife’s M1 Macbook Air feels faster than any laptop I’ve ever used, and outside of 3D rendering, even faster than my Ryzen 5900x desktop.
- Gunnerhead 4y ago
  I’m mind blown just how much better the MacBook trackpad is compared to any non-Apple trackpad.
quickthrower2 4y ago
Dells and Macs seem to have insane upgrade prices vs. market for parts.
diffeomorphism 4y ago
Are prices that different in the US? An M2 MacBook air starts at 1500€ here (more than double of your price) and that is with the infamously crippled storage and just 8gb ram. Fix both and the price is 2000€. It no doubt is a nice machine, but at 2000 that is to be expected.

danaris 4y ago

> Do you mean to say a similar quality Windows machine costs less? These days, the extra cost is (mostly) for the quality. (Some of it is also for some of the capabilities, which a given user may not need all of, but the selection is very limited.) So much of the time, when people are comparing a Mac to a PC on price and complaining that the Mac is overpriced, they're comparing it to a PC whose build quality is very obviously inferior. For them, that may not matter, because they're fully price-focused, or because they're only planning on having it for 2-3 years anyway, or because they just don't believe that build quality matters...but it's still a real thing, and it does make a difference for many people.

eastbound 4y ago
The opening test: Open a PC laptop, the keyboard obnoxiously holds on to the screen to about 10cm, at which point your grip fails and it slams against the table. That’s all the treatment it deserves, and the rest of your experience will be similar; It may sound like a joke but there are many situations where this is useful: When you’re on the phone, when you’re in bed, when you’re holding the power adaptor in the other hand, etc.

AdeptusAquinas 4y ago

Hmm, I'd say the Surface line are the direct competitors, and have real nice quality. Better keyboards and a nicer screen form factor 3:2. Was quite a fan of the Surface Book 2, and recently picked up a Laptop Go which is great, for less than a Macbook Air.

petilon 4y ago
Surface Laptop 5 costs $899. Still no sign of "extra up-front cost" of Apple. For me, Surface Laptop isn't even in the running because of poor screen resolution. The old Surface Book has 3000x2000 resolution which is 200%, but the Surface Laptops have 2256x1504 resolution, which is only 150%. As Steve Jobs said when he introduced iPhone 4, the only resolution that looks good after 100% is 200%. I have tested screens with 150% and 300% resolutions, and they all have display artifacts (such as horizontal 1-pixel horizontal lines appearing to have different widths).
- AdeptusAquinas 4y ago
  I think Mac and surfaces are in the same price bracket definitely. My surface book was a cool 4k in NZD when I grabbed it, comparative to a similar MacBook pro.
  - timcederman 4y ago
    You were being asked about Surface vs Macbook Air - why're you bringing MacBook Pro into it? There's no extra upfront cost for Apple. It is mind boggling how good a computer you can get for USD$800 from Apple compared to anything else on the market.
    - AdeptusAquinas 4y ago
      No I wasn't, but if I was it works like this: Surface Go = iPad, same rough price and specs, Surface Laptop Go, Surface Laptop vs Macbook Air or low-end Macbook Pro, same rough price (Laptop Go is a few hundred cheaper), Surface Book vs medium-high-end Macbook Pro, same rough price. Right now a entry level Macbook Air in NZ is ~1600, 1400 on special, and a Surface Laptop Go 2 is ~1400. Same size, same ram, same hdd, higher res on the air, touch screen on the surface, m1 on the air, intel x64 on the surface, basically same target market.

rekabis 4y ago

> What extra up front cost? The Macbook Air costs $799 at BestBuy. Only if you go with the absolute lowest specs. Which means you cannot upgrade them and will have to chuck that MacBook Air much sooner than any Windows laptop because it’s unable to keep up with you. Maxing out the specs on any Apple hardware is practically required for maximizing usable lifespan, and unfortunately, represents a massive barrier to entry for a majority of people. Since these products are not upgradable after the fact (as most Windows systems are), you have to choose between a much shorter expected lifespan or a much more expensive product. For example, I can easily put together a Windows machine for $3,000 that can do much the same things that a $2,000 Mac Mini can. But get the entry-level Mac Mini, and any Windows machine which matches that price is relevant for more than twice the time span thanks to its ability to be upgraded.

Nursie 4y ago
This is not really true. While the base spec won't meet all needs, you don't need to max out the spec to get a usable machine with a long life.
- newaccount74 4y ago
  Yeah, but the base models really are crippled by a lack of storage. I've had to help a couple of family members with their 128GB Macs and 16GB iPhones and I hated every second of it. I bought my partner a Macbook with maxed out storage just so I don't have to deal with that shit again.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    I don't think they sell 128GB macs any more do they? They shouldn't! 512GB seems to have been enough for me for the last ten years or so, if I need more storage than that, it goes on a different machine or cloud storage of some form. I haven't found it restrictive at all. I had my 2013 MBP (i5/8/512) in active use until 2020 when lockdown hit and I stopped needing a laptop for a while. Now I'm on a M1/16/512 Air, and two years in I'm still very happy with it. Hopefully I'll get 7 years out of this one too.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

Yeah the latest M1/M2 Macbooks have made them a nobrainer. I can’t find any laptops in my country with the same screen resolution, brightness, weight, and trackpad combo as a base Macbook for a cheaper price. My wife’s M1 Macbook Air feels faster than any laptop I’ve ever used, and outside of 3D rendering, even faster than my Ryzen 5900x desktop.

Gunnerhead 4y ago
I’m mind blown just how much better the MacBook trackpad is compared to any non-Apple trackpad.

quickthrower2 4y ago

Dells and Macs seem to have insane upgrade prices vs. market for parts.

diffeomorphism 4y ago

Are prices that different in the US? An M2 MacBook air starts at 1500€ here (more than double of your price) and that is with the infamously crippled storage and just 8gb ram. Fix both and the price is 2000€. It no doubt is a nice machine, but at 2000 that is to be expected.