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EVs I get, but the article specifies that this will be removed in gas-powered vehicles, too.

by Izmaki 4y ago

toomuchtodo 4y ago
New combustion vehicle sales are being phased out in many jurisdictions by 2030-2035. Might as well drop this now for supply chain and shared platform efficiencies considering how fast use is trailing off.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Those deadlines aren't going to be realized. They're just a classist attempt at virtue signaling, completely detached from reality.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    They force supply chains to reconfigure regardless of public opinion. If legacy auto continues to build combustion vehicles they can’t sell, it’s a death sentence. They already have a debt load exceeding safety while trying to move to EV production at scale. But sure, ignore nation state regulations as a multinational at your own peril. Not my debt to service in a rising interest rate environment. https://thedriven.io/2023/03/30/legacy-auto-faces-disaster-in-china-with-unsellable-cars-as-pollution-crunch-looms/ https://thedriven.io/2023/03/30/legacy-auto-faces-disaster-i...
    - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
      You can't push demand down people's throats even if they are receptive to EVs. Where are renters going to plug in their state mandated vehicles? Homeowners who don't have a secure place to plug in? People who can't afford electrical upgrades? Sucks to be them, go ride a bus?
      - manquer 4y ago
        There is still a used car market ? Alternative to not buying a new cheap gas powered vehicle is not public transit
        olyjohn 4y ago
        Used car prices are already skyrocketing. And with all the manufacturers having already stopped making their cheaper cars, it's only going to get worse. Add in forced EV adoption, and demand for used cars will go up even higher.
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        There is a gas-user density threshold below which stations stop being viable. It will be interesting seeing the map of gas-station deserts develop and expand over the coming decades.
        manquer 4y ago
        As a daily driver of hydrogen fuel cell vehicle I experience that today, if I can manage with just 45 pumps in all of California some constantly broken down, and still do 15,000 miles/year it should be fine even if many pumps disappear. Gas stations may become primarily supercharger points, and pump maybe in one corner as a legacy, i doubt it would completely disappear as long as old vehicles still ply the roads in numbers. From public transit to government subsidy for people economically unable to make the change there are many policies we can effect to solve this problem. Indirect subsidy of Gas[1] should not be one of them [1] Without a carbon tax on emissions we are all already effectively subsidizing the costs of climate related economic impact of floods, droughts, forest fires so on.
  - fwungy 4y ago
    The Japanese and Germans are resisting the ICE phase out in their own ways. The Germans aren't ready to walk away from their vaunted automotive history so they forced efuels to be acceptable for 2035. But all those efuel vehicles will run hydrocarbon petrol just fine. Toyota and Honda are both dragging their feet on ICE retirement. Toyota has said they have no plans to give up ICE production, even after the recent CEO change. Honda is quieter but they both sell into markets that aren't going to stop wanting ICEs: they can't afford BEVs.
Robotbeat 4y ago
I would bet it’s even harder to shield gasoline vehicles. But this was solved a lifetime ago.

EVs I get, but the article specifies that this will be removed in gas-powered vehicles, too.

by Izmaki 4y ago

EVs I get, but the article specifies that this will be removed in gas-powered vehicles, too.

New combustion vehicle sales are being phased out in many jurisdictions by 2030-2035. Might as well drop this now for supply chain and shared platform efficiencies considering how fast use is trailing off.

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
Those deadlines aren't going to be realized. They're just a classist attempt at virtue signaling, completely detached from reality.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  They force supply chains to reconfigure regardless of public opinion. If legacy auto continues to build combustion vehicles they can’t sell, it’s a death sentence. They already have a debt load exceeding safety while trying to move to EV production at scale. But sure, ignore nation state regulations as a multinational at your own peril. Not my debt to service in a rising interest rate environment. https://thedriven.io/2023/03/30/legacy-auto-faces-disaster-in-china-with-unsellable-cars-as-pollution-crunch-looms/ https://thedriven.io/2023/03/30/legacy-auto-faces-disaster-i...
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    You can't push demand down people's throats even if they are receptive to EVs. Where are renters going to plug in their state mandated vehicles? Homeowners who don't have a secure place to plug in? People who can't afford electrical upgrades? Sucks to be them, go ride a bus?
    - manquer 4y ago
      There is still a used car market ? Alternative to not buying a new cheap gas powered vehicle is not public transit
      - olyjohn 4y ago
        Used car prices are already skyrocketing. And with all the manufacturers having already stopped making their cheaper cars, it's only going to get worse. Add in forced EV adoption, and demand for used cars will go up even higher.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        There is a gas-user density threshold below which stations stop being viable. It will be interesting seeing the map of gas-station deserts develop and expand over the coming decades.
        manquer 4y ago
        As a daily driver of hydrogen fuel cell vehicle I experience that today, if I can manage with just 45 pumps in all of California some constantly broken down, and still do 15,000 miles/year it should be fine even if many pumps disappear. Gas stations may become primarily supercharger points, and pump maybe in one corner as a legacy, i doubt it would completely disappear as long as old vehicles still ply the roads in numbers. From public transit to government subsidy for people economically unable to make the change there are many policies we can effect to solve this problem. Indirect subsidy of Gas[1] should not be one of them [1] Without a carbon tax on emissions we are all already effectively subsidizing the costs of climate related economic impact of floods, droughts, forest fires so on.
- fwungy 4y ago
  The Japanese and Germans are resisting the ICE phase out in their own ways. The Germans aren't ready to walk away from their vaunted automotive history so they forced efuels to be acceptable for 2035. But all those efuel vehicles will run hydrocarbon petrol just fine. Toyota and Honda are both dragging their feet on ICE retirement. Toyota has said they have no plans to give up ICE production, even after the recent CEO change. Honda is quieter but they both sell into markets that aren't going to stop wanting ICEs: they can't afford BEVs.

Robotbeat 4y ago

I would bet it’s even harder to shield gasoline vehicles. But this was solved a lifetime ago.