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I wonder how many cents this will save them per car. When I can buy a Software Defined Radio module for less than a bottle of wine and some sushi that lets me l

by Izmaki 4y ago

I wonder how many cents this will save them per car. When I can buy a Software Defined Radio module for less than a bottle of wine and some sushi that lets me listen to both AM and FM (everything below 1 GHz basically), and this module takes up less space than my smartphone, it can't be because AM radio is particularly hard to install or expensive to produce. Seems pointless to remove, but at the same time I bet the majority of car owners these days don't really use AM that often, if they even know what it is, that is.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
AM is hard to implement in EVs due to shielding requirements. Not just about being cheap, about deprecating the obsolete. From the AM broadcasting Wikipedia page: “Among persons aged 12-24, AM accounts for only 4% of listening, while FM accounts for 96%. Among persons aged 25-34, AM accounts for only 9% of listening, while FM accounts for 91%. The median age of listeners to the AM band is 57 years old, a full generation older than the median age of FM listeners."
- Izmaki 4y ago
  EVs I get, but the article specifies that this will be removed in gas-powered vehicles, too.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    New combustion vehicle sales are being phased out in many jurisdictions by 2030-2035. Might as well drop this now for supply chain and shared platform efficiencies considering how fast use is trailing off.
    - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
      Those deadlines aren't going to be realized. They're just a classist attempt at virtue signaling, completely detached from reality.
      - toomuchtodo 4y ago
        They force supply chains to reconfigure regardless of public opinion. If legacy auto continues to build combustion vehicles they can’t sell, it’s a death sentence. They already have a debt load exceeding safety while trying to move to EV production at scale. But sure, ignore nation state regulations as a multinational at your own peril. Not my debt to service in a rising interest rate environment. https://thedriven.io/2023/03/30/legacy-auto-faces-disaster-in-china-with-unsellable-cars-as-pollution-crunch-looms/ https://thedriven.io/2023/03/30/legacy-auto-faces-disaster-i...
        kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
        You can't push demand down people's throats even if they are receptive to EVs. Where are renters going to plug in their state mandated vehicles? Homeowners who don't have a secure place to plug in? People who can't afford electrical upgrades? Sucks to be them, go ride a bus?
        manquer 4y ago
        There is still a used car market ? Alternative to not buying a new cheap gas powered vehicle is not public transit
        olyjohn 4y ago
        Used car prices are already skyrocketing. And with all the manufacturers having already stopped making their cheaper cars, it's only going to get worse. Add in forced EV adoption, and demand for used cars will go up even higher.
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        There is a gas-user density threshold below which stations stop being viable. It will be interesting seeing the map of gas-station deserts develop and expand over the coming decades.
        4y ago
  - Robotbeat 4y ago
    I would bet it’s even harder to shield gasoline vehicles. But this was solved a lifetime ago.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  "shielding" kind of glosses over that the components in EVs tend to emit more electromagnetic interference (EMI). This article seems to be a nice overview of the issue: https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/guest-commentaries/control-emi-dont-dump-am-receivers https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/guest-commentar... I guess implementing a receiver that is isolated from the interference can cost more than a few cents though (because it's the whole signal path). AM HD is digital and much less impacted.
- skullone 4y ago
  GMRS radios also barely with within an EV vehicle surprisingly. Was only a few car lengths behind friend on a road trip, couldn't talk to them over GMRS radio, but I could pick up truck and boat traffic from miles away! We had to go back to using our phones to coordinate pitstops!
- 1letterunixname 4y ago
  The AM/FM radios are jellybean standardized components that have existed for decades. Winter in the mountains where FM doesn't work, AM is essential.
- froglets 4y ago
  No one really knows the listenership stats for radio, the method used to come up with numbers is appalling.
  - SideQuark 4y ago
    True. It could be vastly lower than this, right?
- slg 4y ago
  Those usage numbers are actually higher than I expected, but maybe that is because they are framed in relation to FM and usage of FM is way down in those demos too.
- IronWolve 4y ago
  Many farming communities only have AM radio for the migrant workers. So Tesla/Ford might actually be cutting off low income, non english speaking farming immigrants from access to local radio in their own language and community. But they they probably are not driving EVs like tesla, still not cool thou. Ford cutting it out of their f150 work trucks seems to be rather bad for many communities.
  - G_z9 4y ago
    This is the most convoluted way of disparaging Tesla I’ve ever seen. Congratulations
modzu 4y ago
pointless? the ford will come with a 30 day subscription to xm..
- acomjean 4y ago
  My Honda did… I was pre signed up for my convenience. and apparently they gave XM my address too because I started getting regular mail when the trial ran out..
1letterunixname 4y ago
This sounds regressive and pointless. FM/AM vs. FM radio has to be pennies. In some mountainous areas, only AM radio works.
- dmonitor 4y ago
  It should be required by regulation, to be frank. Many places still have emergency broadcasts on AM radio.
  - alden5 4y ago
    especially considering a backup camera and an accompanying display became a requirement in the states, AM radio would be nothing
  - Denvercoder9 4y ago
    If we're going to regulation route, we could also require those emergency broadcasts to move to FM.
    - zamnos 4y ago
      The cost of issuing new regulations by the government is far lower than the cost to retrofit FM hardware to all stations.
    - the_fury 4y ago
      FM frequencies do not propogate in nearly the same way as MW do.
hakfoo 4y ago
I wonder if it's less cost and more about a support angle. If they get a mere handful of customers tying up service people on "the AM radio was crystal clear on my 1992 Camry with manual-everything, it must be my new $60k electric car being busted!" it's probably more costly than telling the software developers to deselect a build flag.
pcdoodle 4y ago
I thought about that too. An external or internal socketed module would turn an AM UPGRADE into at least $100 in labor costs unless it's done by the RADIO OEM. Just put AM in the darn radio guys!

by Izmaki 4y ago

toomuchtodo 4y ago

AM is hard to implement in EVs due to shielding requirements. Not just about being cheap, about deprecating the obsolete. From the AM broadcasting Wikipedia page: “Among persons aged 12-24, AM accounts for only 4% of listening, while FM accounts for 96%. Among persons aged 25-34, AM accounts for only 9% of listening, while FM accounts for 91%. The median age of listeners to the AM band is 57 years old, a full generation older than the median age of FM listeners."

Izmaki 4y ago
EVs I get, but the article specifies that this will be removed in gas-powered vehicles, too.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  New combustion vehicle sales are being phased out in many jurisdictions by 2030-2035. Might as well drop this now for supply chain and shared platform efficiencies considering how fast use is trailing off.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    Those deadlines aren't going to be realized. They're just a classist attempt at virtue signaling, completely detached from reality.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      They force supply chains to reconfigure regardless of public opinion. If legacy auto continues to build combustion vehicles they can’t sell, it’s a death sentence. They already have a debt load exceeding safety while trying to move to EV production at scale. But sure, ignore nation state regulations as a multinational at your own peril. Not my debt to service in a rising interest rate environment. https://thedriven.io/2023/03/30/legacy-auto-faces-disaster-in-china-with-unsellable-cars-as-pollution-crunch-looms/ https://thedriven.io/2023/03/30/legacy-auto-faces-disaster-i...
      - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
        You can't push demand down people's throats even if they are receptive to EVs. Where are renters going to plug in their state mandated vehicles? Homeowners who don't have a secure place to plug in? People who can't afford electrical upgrades? Sucks to be them, go ride a bus?
        manquer 4y ago
        There is still a used car market ? Alternative to not buying a new cheap gas powered vehicle is not public transit
        olyjohn 4y ago
        Used car prices are already skyrocketing. And with all the manufacturers having already stopped making their cheaper cars, it's only going to get worse. Add in forced EV adoption, and demand for used cars will go up even higher.
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
        There is a gas-user density threshold below which stations stop being viable. It will be interesting seeing the map of gas-station deserts develop and expand over the coming decades.
        4y ago
- Robotbeat 4y ago
  I would bet it’s even harder to shield gasoline vehicles. But this was solved a lifetime ago.
maxerickson 4y ago
"shielding" kind of glosses over that the components in EVs tend to emit more electromagnetic interference (EMI). This article seems to be a nice overview of the issue: https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/guest-commentaries/control-emi-dont-dump-am-receivers https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/guest-commentar... I guess implementing a receiver that is isolated from the interference can cost more than a few cents though (because it's the whole signal path). AM HD is digital and much less impacted.
skullone 4y ago
GMRS radios also barely with within an EV vehicle surprisingly. Was only a few car lengths behind friend on a road trip, couldn't talk to them over GMRS radio, but I could pick up truck and boat traffic from miles away! We had to go back to using our phones to coordinate pitstops!
1letterunixname 4y ago
The AM/FM radios are jellybean standardized components that have existed for decades. Winter in the mountains where FM doesn't work, AM is essential.
froglets 4y ago
No one really knows the listenership stats for radio, the method used to come up with numbers is appalling.
- SideQuark 4y ago
  True. It could be vastly lower than this, right?
slg 4y ago
Those usage numbers are actually higher than I expected, but maybe that is because they are framed in relation to FM and usage of FM is way down in those demos too.
IronWolve 4y ago
Many farming communities only have AM radio for the migrant workers. So Tesla/Ford might actually be cutting off low income, non english speaking farming immigrants from access to local radio in their own language and community. But they they probably are not driving EVs like tesla, still not cool thou. Ford cutting it out of their f150 work trucks seems to be rather bad for many communities.
- G_z9 4y ago
  This is the most convoluted way of disparaging Tesla I’ve ever seen. Congratulations

modzu 4y ago

pointless? the ford will come with a 30 day subscription to xm..

acomjean 4y ago
My Honda did… I was pre signed up for my convenience. and apparently they gave XM my address too because I started getting regular mail when the trial ran out..

1letterunixname 4y ago

This sounds regressive and pointless. FM/AM vs. FM radio has to be pennies. In some mountainous areas, only AM radio works.

dmonitor 4y ago
It should be required by regulation, to be frank. Many places still have emergency broadcasts on AM radio.
- alden5 4y ago
  especially considering a backup camera and an accompanying display became a requirement in the states, AM radio would be nothing
- Denvercoder9 4y ago
  If we're going to regulation route, we could also require those emergency broadcasts to move to FM.
  - zamnos 4y ago
    The cost of issuing new regulations by the government is far lower than the cost to retrofit FM hardware to all stations.
  - the_fury 4y ago
    FM frequencies do not propogate in nearly the same way as MW do.

hakfoo 4y ago

I wonder if it's less cost and more about a support angle. If they get a mere handful of customers tying up service people on "the AM radio was crystal clear on my 1992 Camry with manual-everything, it must be my new $60k electric car being busted!" it's probably more costly than telling the software developers to deselect a build flag.

pcdoodle 4y ago

I thought about that too. An external or internal socketed module would turn an AM UPGRADE into at least $100 in labor costs unless it's done by the RADIO OEM. Just put AM in the darn radio guys!