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I realized this rather spectacularly with MMORPGs. I've long been a fan of open world MMOs with basically next to no mandatory quests. Think Runescape, Ragnaro

I realized this rather spectacularly with MMORPGs. I've long been a fan of open world MMOs with basically next to no mandatory quests. Think Runescape, Ragnarok Online, MapleStory, etc. Loved them, and Ragnarok Online is to this day still among my top favorite games of all time. One day, Guild Wars 2 dropped to great hype and fanfare and I bought it to try it out. Good fucking god damn hell in a shit basket, I fucking hated it. Quests everywhere. Quests. Quests. Quests. Quests. Quests. Quests. Quests. Quests. Quests. Quests. Quests. Walk around a bit? Here's a side quest! Pan the camera? Here please take this quest! No? How about this quest?! It is still the worst use of $60 bucks that I've ever spent.

TriangleCoconut 4y ago
OOT: You've just described my exact most memorable gaming experiences over the last two or so decades. I've been struggling to find something I liked enough of late. Would you mind sharing what you're into these days?
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  Japanese mobile games, namely Fate/Grand Order and Princess Connect! Re:Dive. Playing on the Japanese home servers, mind, since I speak Japanese. (RIP English Priconne, Crunchyroll is bad civilization.) I don't have the kind of time or energy to devote to grinding anymore like I used to in RO and the like, but I'm always a sucker for good writing which FGO and Priconne give me in spades. And before anyone mentions it: Yeah yeah, they're gacha games. Gambling. I don't care. Japanese gachas are generally good, and I'm getting my money's worth when I whale. :V
tmtvl 4y ago
Some people prefer paying $60 for a blank canvas with some brushes and paint, others prefer a good book.
bigger_cheese 4y ago
As someone who likes Guild Wars 2 the game makes the distinction between quests (i.e. the Story) and Events which are constantly occurring in the world. As you wander through zones in the world dynamic events will spawn for example you might run into a merchant in need of an escort between villages or you'll run across a farmer who needs you to defend his flock or whatever. Many events are simply on a timer and some are triggered by specific actions you (or another player) have done elsewhere in the world. The events can be simply once off events or they can be more complex with multiple states. I.e. an event can spawn where a bunch of npc soldiers want to take back a mine from monsters - players can escort them to the mine help them clear it out. If successful then later on other NPC's will move into the mine new vendors will become accessible etc. Later still the monsters will congregate and launch a new offensive to retake the mine an event will spawn to help defend the new settlement. I like the feeling this gives the world. For me at least it makes the game world feel like it's fresh and things are constantly happening even when your character is not around the world is alive and things are changing all of the time. This is different from my experience playing an mmo like World of Warcraft, which had static NPC quest givers in zones and once you'd done the content, which tended to be stuff like kill 15 of this enemy and then report back to me - there was little reason to revisit the zone again. The questline in guild wars 2 which reveals the larger narrative and your characters personal story is instanced content, separate from the event system. None of the events in Guild Wars are mandatory you can ignore all of them to your heart's content - don't feel like escorting the merchant you can walk past him on the road. Don't want to help the farmer defend his flock from the wolves - you can go right on ahead and ignore it. So it's strange you would get hung up on that aspect of the game. If you wanted to run around and explore the open world going from zone to zone as you please you can go right ahead and do just that.
- Dalewyn 4y ago
  The thing is I couldn't just go from zone to zone: I was inundated with quests everywhere I went. I couldn't ignore them, they were in my face every chance they got. It's kind of like trying to use the internet today without an adblocker. Much like how the internet spams ADVERTS ADVERTS ADVERTS ADVERTS ADVERTS ADVERTS in my face every chance they get, Guild Wars 2 spammed QUESTS QUESTS QUESTS QUESTS QUESTS QUESTS in my face every chance it got. I couldn't stand it, I fucking hated it; I refuse to call Guild Wars 2 an open world.
  - spoiler 4y ago
    As someone who played RO for years... The similarities are exactly why I enjoyed GW2... Are you talking about the hearts or the events? The Achievements? The main difference is that the world the player experiences is more "coherent" in GW2 because of the Elder Dragon threat and their involvement in it (ie their hero's journey). Also, what are "quests" to you? There's so freeform stuff you can do in the game. Most of the Hearts you can complete without ever really caring about them. It's just a nice little exp bonus. Events? People can just not do them. Go to a different area (as in, hold W for 10 seconds, or use a waypoint?).
    - Dalewyn 4y ago
      >Are you talking about the hearts or the events? The Achievements? The main difference is that the world the player experiences is more "coherent" in GW2 because of the Elder Dragon threat and their involvement in it (ie their hero's journey). I didn't even get that far because I was inundated to my armpits with QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE with literally any action I took. It was nauseating and quickly drove me mad. What makes me wonder to this day is if I had a different client from everyone else, because quite literally noone I ever talk to about this seems to be able to relate (case in point). >Also, what are "quests" to you? The kind you would find in RO, Runescape, Skyrim, and so on. Scripted things to do, but not particularly conspicuous and in the way if I'm not interested in pursuing them.
saratogacx 4y ago
This is the first mention I've seen of RO in a long long time and I totally agree. There were a lot of small stories that you could take but you never felt like you were just going from point to point in some big directed path. If you didn't like an area you could skip it and never feel like you lost much. I've yet to find a game that got me anywhere near the same sense of freedom and sense of being part of the world instead of one of a bunch of people going through the predetermined Disney ride. The original planetside had a similar feeling with a more shooter lens on it where you were always part of a changing world.

TriangleCoconut 4y ago

OOT: You've just described my exact most memorable gaming experiences over the last two or so decades. I've been struggling to find something I liked enough of late. Would you mind sharing what you're into these days?

Dalewyn 4y ago
Japanese mobile games, namely Fate/Grand Order and Princess Connect! Re:Dive. Playing on the Japanese home servers, mind, since I speak Japanese. (RIP English Priconne, Crunchyroll is bad civilization.) I don't have the kind of time or energy to devote to grinding anymore like I used to in RO and the like, but I'm always a sucker for good writing which FGO and Priconne give me in spades. And before anyone mentions it: Yeah yeah, they're gacha games. Gambling. I don't care. Japanese gachas are generally good, and I'm getting my money's worth when I whale. :V

tmtvl 4y ago

Some people prefer paying $60 for a blank canvas with some brushes and paint, others prefer a good book.

bigger_cheese 4y ago

As someone who likes Guild Wars 2 the game makes the distinction between quests (i.e. the Story) and Events which are constantly occurring in the world. As you wander through zones in the world dynamic events will spawn for example you might run into a merchant in need of an escort between villages or you'll run across a farmer who needs you to defend his flock or whatever. Many events are simply on a timer and some are triggered by specific actions you (or another player) have done elsewhere in the world. The events can be simply once off events or they can be more complex with multiple states. I.e. an event can spawn where a bunch of npc soldiers want to take back a mine from monsters - players can escort them to the mine help them clear it out. If successful then later on other NPC's will move into the mine new vendors will become accessible etc. Later still the monsters will congregate and launch a new offensive to retake the mine an event will spawn to help defend the new settlement. I like the feeling this gives the world. For me at least it makes the game world feel like it's fresh and things are constantly happening even when your character is not around the world is alive and things are changing all of the time. This is different from my experience playing an mmo like World of Warcraft, which had static NPC quest givers in zones and once you'd done the content, which tended to be stuff like kill 15 of this enemy and then report back to me - there was little reason to revisit the zone again. The questline in guild wars 2 which reveals the larger narrative and your characters personal story is instanced content, separate from the event system. None of the events in Guild Wars are mandatory you can ignore all of them to your heart's content - don't feel like escorting the merchant you can walk past him on the road. Don't want to help the farmer defend his flock from the wolves - you can go right on ahead and ignore it. So it's strange you would get hung up on that aspect of the game. If you wanted to run around and explore the open world going from zone to zone as you please you can go right ahead and do just that.

Dalewyn 4y ago
The thing is I couldn't just go from zone to zone: I was inundated with quests everywhere I went. I couldn't ignore them, they were in my face every chance they got. It's kind of like trying to use the internet today without an adblocker. Much like how the internet spams ADVERTS ADVERTS ADVERTS ADVERTS ADVERTS ADVERTS in my face every chance they get, Guild Wars 2 spammed QUESTS QUESTS QUESTS QUESTS QUESTS QUESTS in my face every chance it got. I couldn't stand it, I fucking hated it; I refuse to call Guild Wars 2 an open world.
- spoiler 4y ago
  As someone who played RO for years... The similarities are exactly why I enjoyed GW2... Are you talking about the hearts or the events? The Achievements? The main difference is that the world the player experiences is more "coherent" in GW2 because of the Elder Dragon threat and their involvement in it (ie their hero's journey). Also, what are "quests" to you? There's so freeform stuff you can do in the game. Most of the Hearts you can complete without ever really caring about them. It's just a nice little exp bonus. Events? People can just not do them. Go to a different area (as in, hold W for 10 seconds, or use a waypoint?).
  - Dalewyn 4y ago
    >Are you talking about the hearts or the events? The Achievements? The main difference is that the world the player experiences is more "coherent" in GW2 because of the Elder Dragon threat and their involvement in it (ie their hero's journey). I didn't even get that far because I was inundated to my armpits with QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE QUEST IS AVAILABLE with literally any action I took. It was nauseating and quickly drove me mad. What makes me wonder to this day is if I had a different client from everyone else, because quite literally noone I ever talk to about this seems to be able to relate (case in point). >Also, what are "quests" to you? The kind you would find in RO, Runescape, Skyrim, and so on. Scripted things to do, but not particularly conspicuous and in the way if I'm not interested in pursuing them.

saratogacx 4y ago

This is the first mention I've seen of RO in a long long time and I totally agree. There were a lot of small stories that you could take but you never felt like you were just going from point to point in some big directed path. If you didn't like an area you could skip it and never feel like you lost much. I've yet to find a game that got me anywhere near the same sense of freedom and sense of being part of the world instead of one of a bunch of people going through the predetermined Disney ride. The original planetside had a similar feeling with a more shooter lens on it where you were always part of a changing world.