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But doing what you described with the paper, certainly would be considered cheating by a university. But, what is morally wrong about that? What makes the uni

by ryanjmo 15y ago

But doing what you described with the paper, certainly would be considered cheating by a university. But, what is morally wrong about that? What makes the university rules, the correct rules to act by? Certainly, if you choose to go to a University you are agreeing to follow their rules, but outside of breaking your agreement with the university, what is wrong about that? Why can't we use other people work to create our own. If someone took my thesis and turned it in and got an A, I would be psyched for them and happy they used my work. It doesn't hurt me at all.

Splines 15y ago
Why can't we use other people work to create our own. If someone took my thesis and turned it in and got an A, I would be psyched for them and happy they used my work. It doesn't hurt me at all. The problem is that Zynga isn't operating in a vacuum. Sales lost to Zynga do hurt someone else. In the University paper example, how would you feel if the number of A grades available were limited, and because someone copied a previous year's A-paper, someone who deserved an A now received a B? What if that person was you? There's a spectrum between inspiration and impersonation, and Zynga is clearly on the impersonation side. IMO, it's extremely disingenuous of Pincus to try to pass of his game as somehow derivative of Sim Tower or Yoot Tower. I'm surprised he wrote a memo at all, considering that Zynga employees aren't stupid - they know what brings in the money, and it isn't coming up with fun, novel, interesting games that are built upon the shoulders of giants.
- ryanjmo 15y ago
  So would it be ok to copy a site/game that doesn't have much traction if you have a better distribution channel and can get the copy traction? In this case the original creator isn't hurt at all and actually may benefit. Would you consider this ok? If it is ok, where do you draw the line? So far from people's answers to my question "what is so morally wrong with this?" I do not think the reaction that it is so wrong is as cut and dry issue as we want it to be. But, if I am missing something obvious, I would actually really appreciate the insight!
  - Splines 15y ago
    So would it be ok to copy a site/game that doesn't have much traction if you have a better distribution channel and can get the copy traction? In this case the original creator isn't hurt at all and actually may benefit. Would you consider this ok? Generall, IMO, if you're literally cloning someone else's game (or other content), it would be very difficult to justify. I think the only time I could see this working is if you're bringing the cloned game to another platform that is not being served by the original creator, with the original creator's blessing. So far from people's answers to my question "what is so morally wrong with this?" I do not think the reaction that it is so wrong is as cut and dry issue as we want it to be. But, if I am missing something obvious, I would actually really appreciate the insight! Most people wish that effort=reward, and it is aggravating to see Zynga do well in spite of their apparent lack of effort, at least in the game design department. What makes it worse is that at this stage of Zynga's existence, they have the resources to create original IP. One could conclude that their game design decisions are driven purely by a backwards-looking perspective, instead of a forward-looking one.
JackdawX 15y ago
"Why can't we use other people work to create our own. If someone took my thesis and turned it in and got an A, I would be psyched for them and happy they used my work. It doesn't hurt me at all." Not sure if this is devils advocate, but i'll answer. If someone copies one paper, theres a legitimate argument that maybe it doesn't matter. But if copying in university was rife, people would just copy each others work and not learn anything, going through school for the monetary benefit only. Now lets say the subject is History, perhaps you don't care either way (short-sighted opinion, but the benefits are difficult to quantify). But now lets say this is medicine. All doctors cheat on their exams and research papers, so no-one knows anything, and even those who do bother to learn find it difficult to advance medical knowledge much further than the architects of all the original work. So now does this attitude hurt you? Probably. Games are far less important in life than professions like medicine. But Zynga must be one of the richest games companies around right now, and I'm not sure they actually know how to design their own games. Certainly i've never seen an original piece of work from them, everything is a rip off of smaller developers works, heavily marketed to eclipse the original creators. Who knows what this is doing to the facebook games market in the long term? (of course, the world might be a better place without so much facebook, but thats another story)

by ryanjmo 15y ago

Splines 15y ago

Why can't we use other people work to create our own. If someone took my thesis and turned it in and got an A, I would be psyched for them and happy they used my work. It doesn't hurt me at all. The problem is that Zynga isn't operating in a vacuum. Sales lost to Zynga do hurt someone else. In the University paper example, how would you feel if the number of A grades available were limited, and because someone copied a previous year's A-paper, someone who deserved an A now received a B? What if that person was you? There's a spectrum between inspiration and impersonation, and Zynga is clearly on the impersonation side. IMO, it's extremely disingenuous of Pincus to try to pass of his game as somehow derivative of Sim Tower or Yoot Tower. I'm surprised he wrote a memo at all, considering that Zynga employees aren't stupid - they know what brings in the money, and it isn't coming up with fun, novel, interesting games that are built upon the shoulders of giants.

ryanjmo 15y ago
So would it be ok to copy a site/game that doesn't have much traction if you have a better distribution channel and can get the copy traction? In this case the original creator isn't hurt at all and actually may benefit. Would you consider this ok? If it is ok, where do you draw the line? So far from people's answers to my question "what is so morally wrong with this?" I do not think the reaction that it is so wrong is as cut and dry issue as we want it to be. But, if I am missing something obvious, I would actually really appreciate the insight!
- Splines 15y ago
  So would it be ok to copy a site/game that doesn't have much traction if you have a better distribution channel and can get the copy traction? In this case the original creator isn't hurt at all and actually may benefit. Would you consider this ok? Generall, IMO, if you're literally cloning someone else's game (or other content), it would be very difficult to justify. I think the only time I could see this working is if you're bringing the cloned game to another platform that is not being served by the original creator, with the original creator's blessing. So far from people's answers to my question "what is so morally wrong with this?" I do not think the reaction that it is so wrong is as cut and dry issue as we want it to be. But, if I am missing something obvious, I would actually really appreciate the insight! Most people wish that effort=reward, and it is aggravating to see Zynga do well in spite of their apparent lack of effort, at least in the game design department. What makes it worse is that at this stage of Zynga's existence, they have the resources to create original IP. One could conclude that their game design decisions are driven purely by a backwards-looking perspective, instead of a forward-looking one.

JackdawX 15y ago

"Why can't we use other people work to create our own. If someone took my thesis and turned it in and got an A, I would be psyched for them and happy they used my work. It doesn't hurt me at all." Not sure if this is devils advocate, but i'll answer. If someone copies one paper, theres a legitimate argument that maybe it doesn't matter. But if copying in university was rife, people would just copy each others work and not learn anything, going through school for the monetary benefit only. Now lets say the subject is History, perhaps you don't care either way (short-sighted opinion, but the benefits are difficult to quantify). But now lets say this is medicine. All doctors cheat on their exams and research papers, so no-one knows anything, and even those who do bother to learn find it difficult to advance medical knowledge much further than the architects of all the original work. So now does this attitude hurt you? Probably. Games are far less important in life than professions like medicine. But Zynga must be one of the richest games companies around right now, and I'm not sure they actually know how to design their own games. Certainly i've never seen an original piece of work from them, everything is a rip off of smaller developers works, heavily marketed to eclipse the original creators. Who knows what this is doing to the facebook games market in the long term? (of course, the world might be a better place without so much facebook, but thats another story)