6 ms·

London meanwhile, continues to ban personally owned e-scooters - allowing only rental e-scooters!

by flak48 4y ago

muyuu 4y ago
maximising revenue and control from the authority it makes sense in a way
- twic 4y ago
  Except the streets are still littered with them. While cycling to work a while ago, i came across one parked in the middle of a segregated bike lane, in between a fence and a lane of heavy traffic. If this is the authority maximising control, i dread to think what uncontrolled use looks like.
  - tomatocracy 4y ago
    The rental escooters in London are terrible. You need a driving licence to use them, unlike rental ebikes. Yet they are slower than an ebike or even a regular bike. They are also really expensive. Then add to that the fact that'll they all have geofencing which (i) forces you off the less occupied bike lanes or roads in many cases (eg in/near the Royal Parks - including roads which are open to cars) and (ii) doesn't work properly so that if you're just near to a "slow" area but not on it then you end up having to push them. This is all entirely down to government enforced regulations - honestly I'm not sure why the companies bothered putting them in at all as they must have pretty well zero repeat custom. Meanwhile there are plenty of non rental escooters on the bike lanes which seem to work pretty well for people, despite being technically illegal.
    - samastur 4y ago
      On the other hand, I enjoyed using them last year while in London for work. Could get to our office quicker than using public transport, it was more pleasant than stuck in hot boxes moving around and only slightly more expensive (at least in my case).
    - _Wintermute 4y ago
      I'm pretty sure the taxi-cab lobby groups in London are heavily influencing these stupid decisions that make e-scooters a less viable option for getting around. I don't have much to explain why they're banned from parks which allow you to drive a range rover through them.
  - muyuu 4y ago
    it's more control than letting people own them, in a certain aspect of course, carelessness is a problem but that also happens with so-called Boris bikes (Livingstone bikes)
    - easytiger 4y ago
      > carelessness is a problem but that also happens with so-called Boris bikes (Livingstone bikes) no. They are returned to docking stations. Other schemes litter the pavement
      - muyuu 4y ago
        perhaps they do it more I live near the DLR and I see vandalised, abandoned Boris bikes on the regular
        easytiger 4y ago
        I see this nonsense every day https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png
FridayoLeary 4y ago
From personal experience even police don’t care. Just don’t do anything too dangerous,I guess. In a way it’s better to operate in a legal gray zone because you don’t need to worry about things like licenses and insurance and fines etc.
arlcode 4y ago
Interesting. Germany regulated all scooters a few years back (with additional local rules for rentals). That means some required safety features, mandatory insurance, minimum driver age and rules about what part of the road you can use. It seems to work quite well in practice, however, I question the economic viability of the business model. In my ~80k inhabitants, touristy city I see them rarely used and the few times I took one they seemed quite expensive. Bird already left the again.
qball 4y ago
Seems like a very British solution to me (being a nation that cares little for liberty); if the police have had enough being constantly called to deal with another 10 being stolen today I'm not surprised they'd only permit company vehicles. After all, there's no economic value to be gained in stealing them and the insurance premiums for destruction (including simply throwing them into the Thames) is distributed across the customer base. If there are thieves stealing them for parts they'll be easier to detect (since it's not plausibly deniable to claim a company scooter is yours). Combine that with the fact that it'd be trivial to disable all transport in the case of civil unrest, and you seem to have a winning policy for Londoners.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  That they have always been banned is an accident of the way a very old law on vehicles was written. Making an exception to that law for rentals in limited areas was seen as more controlled than allowing everything, although looking at other cities allowing only non-rental usage first might be more sensible.
easytiger 4y ago
Now ban them and their bike scheme counterparts in London. An absolute blight on the city. Their USP is they can be left anywhere. https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png
- renewiltord 4y ago
  Those Lime bikes are terrific. Great for access to places that don't have Santander bikes.
  - easytiger 4y ago
    Great for the fraction of a percent of Londoners who use them, terrible for every one else
    - renewiltord 4y ago
      I just walk past them when I'm not using them. Very easy. Hardly a problem.
      - anhner 4y ago
        Perhaps because you don't have a disability or a stroller with a young child so that you can comfortably and effortlessly avoid them...
        te_chris 3y ago
        They’re fine with a stroller mostly. From personal experience around Hackney, Islington and Haringey.
        ehnto 4y ago
        If sidewalks could be wider it wouldn't be as much of a concern. Narrow sidewalks are to accommodate car parking more often than not. I would rather see less of that in a city centre.
petodo 4y ago
That's as logical as women retiring earlier than men. /s
goodcanadian 4y ago
In the context of UK law, e-scooters are motorised vehicles which make them illegal to use on the sidewalk. However, they don't come close to meeting the legal requirements for use on the road (no turn signals, for example) making it illegal to use there. Personal e-scooters aren't technically banned (they are available to buy), but there is no where on public property where you can legally ride them (not that it stops people). Therefore, the only way an e-scooter can be used legally is if a special provision has been made for a trial with rental scooters in select locations (Oxford being the one that I am familiar with).

London meanwhile, continues to ban personally owned e-scooters - allowing only rental e-scooters!

by flak48 4y ago

London meanwhile, continues to ban personally owned e-scooters - allowing only rental e-scooters!

muyuu 4y ago

maximising revenue and control from the authority it makes sense in a way

twic 4y ago
Except the streets are still littered with them. While cycling to work a while ago, i came across one parked in the middle of a segregated bike lane, in between a fence and a lane of heavy traffic. If this is the authority maximising control, i dread to think what uncontrolled use looks like.
- tomatocracy 4y ago
  The rental escooters in London are terrible. You need a driving licence to use them, unlike rental ebikes. Yet they are slower than an ebike or even a regular bike. They are also really expensive. Then add to that the fact that'll they all have geofencing which (i) forces you off the less occupied bike lanes or roads in many cases (eg in/near the Royal Parks - including roads which are open to cars) and (ii) doesn't work properly so that if you're just near to a "slow" area but not on it then you end up having to push them. This is all entirely down to government enforced regulations - honestly I'm not sure why the companies bothered putting them in at all as they must have pretty well zero repeat custom. Meanwhile there are plenty of non rental escooters on the bike lanes which seem to work pretty well for people, despite being technically illegal.
  - samastur 4y ago
    On the other hand, I enjoyed using them last year while in London for work. Could get to our office quicker than using public transport, it was more pleasant than stuck in hot boxes moving around and only slightly more expensive (at least in my case).
  - _Wintermute 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure the taxi-cab lobby groups in London are heavily influencing these stupid decisions that make e-scooters a less viable option for getting around. I don't have much to explain why they're banned from parks which allow you to drive a range rover through them.
- muyuu 4y ago
  it's more control than letting people own them, in a certain aspect of course, carelessness is a problem but that also happens with so-called Boris bikes (Livingstone bikes)
  - easytiger 4y ago
    > carelessness is a problem but that also happens with so-called Boris bikes (Livingstone bikes) no. They are returned to docking stations. Other schemes litter the pavement
    - muyuu 4y ago
      perhaps they do it more I live near the DLR and I see vandalised, abandoned Boris bikes on the regular
      - easytiger 4y ago
        I see this nonsense every day https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png

FridayoLeary 4y ago

From personal experience even police don’t care. Just don’t do anything too dangerous,I guess. In a way it’s better to operate in a legal gray zone because you don’t need to worry about things like licenses and insurance and fines etc.

arlcode 4y ago

Interesting. Germany regulated all scooters a few years back (with additional local rules for rentals). That means some required safety features, mandatory insurance, minimum driver age and rules about what part of the road you can use. It seems to work quite well in practice, however, I question the economic viability of the business model. In my ~80k inhabitants, touristy city I see them rarely used and the few times I took one they seemed quite expensive. Bird already left the again.

qball 4y ago

Seems like a very British solution to me (being a nation that cares little for liberty); if the police have had enough being constantly called to deal with another 10 being stolen today I'm not surprised they'd only permit company vehicles. After all, there's no economic value to be gained in stealing them and the insurance premiums for destruction (including simply throwing them into the Thames) is distributed across the customer base. If there are thieves stealing them for parts they'll be easier to detect (since it's not plausibly deniable to claim a company scooter is yours). Combine that with the fact that it'd be trivial to disable all transport in the case of civil unrest, and you seem to have a winning policy for Londoners.

Symbiote 4y ago
That they have always been banned is an accident of the way a very old law on vehicles was written. Making an exception to that law for rentals in limited areas was seen as more controlled than allowing everything, although looking at other cities allowing only non-rental usage first might be more sensible.

easytiger 4y ago

Now ban them and their bike scheme counterparts in London. An absolute blight on the city. Their USP is they can be left anywhere. https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png

renewiltord 4y ago
Those Lime bikes are terrific. Great for access to places that don't have Santander bikes.
- easytiger 4y ago
  Great for the fraction of a percent of Londoners who use them, terrible for every one else
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    I just walk past them when I'm not using them. Very easy. Hardly a problem.
    - anhner 4y ago
      Perhaps because you don't have a disability or a stroller with a young child so that you can comfortably and effortlessly avoid them...
      - te_chris 3y ago
        They’re fine with a stroller mostly. From personal experience around Hackney, Islington and Haringey.
      - ehnto 4y ago
        If sidewalks could be wider it wouldn't be as much of a concern. Narrow sidewalks are to accommodate car parking more often than not. I would rather see less of that in a city centre.

petodo 4y ago

That's as logical as women retiring earlier than men. /s

goodcanadian 4y ago

In the context of UK law, e-scooters are motorised vehicles which make them illegal to use on the sidewalk. However, they don't come close to meeting the legal requirements for use on the road (no turn signals, for example) making it illegal to use there. Personal e-scooters aren't technically banned (they are available to buy), but there is no where on public property where you can legally ride them (not that it stops people). Therefore, the only way an e-scooter can be used legally is if a special provision has been made for a trial with rental scooters in select locations (Oxford being the one that I am familiar with).