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Excellent vote from the people of Paris! It's too easy to take these things on the sidewalk, go 20mph and disregard the people around you. Those things also wei

Excellent vote from the people of Paris! It's too easy to take these things on the sidewalk, go 20mph and disregard the people around you. Those things also weight quite a bit, so getting hit with that may be life altering.

fsh 4y ago
They are electronically limited to 20 km/h in Paris and weigh no more than a bicycle.
- bombolo 4y ago
  Getting hit by a bycicle at 20km/h can severely injure you.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    So prohibit bikes then? I think government is more concerned about scooters competing with paid for transportation and hence reduction of revenue
    - trog 4y ago
      > So prohibit bikes then? I think government is more concerned about scooters competing with paid for transportation and hence reduction of revenue If you read the article you'll see this is based on a decision by the city's residents, 90% of whom voted against keeping them around. The article seems to refer to two main things: "reckless and drunken driving, as well as clutter on pavements". In my Australian city (I think we were the first to legalise them) they are wildly popular but I can attest to both of these things being a huge problem. I literally just walked to grab a snack and on the way back I stepped onto the road and was nearly wiped out by a scooter coming out of nowhere - illegally riding on the road. I have a collection of photos on my phone of scooters being left randomly around the streets, including across the footpath and even on the road in some cases. There is an entire class of people who use these that are just completely selfish fuckwits and do not stop to consider everyone else when they abandon them wherever they finish. I am 100% pro electric scooter. They need to have infrastructure like cars, for parking and storage and riding. My state has just announced pretty harsh laws for riders that violate them but they are not being enforced enough yet.
      - concordDance 4y ago
        > If you read the article you'll see this is based on a decision by the city's residents, 90% of whom voted against keeping them around This is a lie. I don't even need to go look anything up to call 90% turnout a lie. Actual number was probably 7%.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - twelve40 4y ago
    but... nobody seems to be talking about banning bicycles?
    - shtopointo 4y ago
      They are banned from sidewalks.
      - noahtallen 4y ago
        E scooters are just as banned from sidewalks as bikes?
        jacquesm 4y ago
        There's scooters and scooters. It's a bit of a misnomer but there are electric scooters that are like a Vespa scooter ('Absolute beginners') and there are electric scooters that are the ones that your kid would ride when they're 5 or so (plank with two wheels, you stand on the plank and 'scoot' with your other leg). The e-scooter of the latter variety is what is of concern here, ~20kg + rider moving at ~20kph (sometimes faster). The former is definitely banned from sidewalks (though they are often parked there), the other is used on sidewalks quite frequently, in spite of that not being legal. They have shitty small wheels and are pretty dangerous for both rider and pedestrians.
        twelve40 4y ago
        if 20km/h is a problem, why can't they just mandate a lower limit city-wide. Shared e-scooters are already heavily limited and regulated, physically can't go faster than 10km/h in large chunks of the city center already. Unlike cars or regular bicycles, shared e-scooters can be physically limited to any desired speed with one flip of a central switch. A total ban seems like looking for a scapegoat.
      - goatlover 4y ago
        Yet I see people riding bikes on sidewalks, usually on busy roads without bike lanes. Doubt the police bother ticketing them anymore than they do people riding scooters on sidewalks or without helmets. At least where I’m from.
- deanc 4y ago
  Practically all their weight is at the base. Your ankles or legs will be shattered if you’re hit by one.
- janosdebugs 4y ago
  Except bikes have a much larger turn radius and are much more bulky than a scooter. You can zip between people with a scooter no problem, but it is tricky to do with a bike. As someone who ditched a car for a bike, I had several almost-accidents with these things and it was always down to reckless driving and trying to pull stunts on these things.
lmm 4y ago
I've heard there are some crazy people who try to drive vehicles weighing a tonne or more in the city at as much as 40mph, and they often find their way onto the pavements too. Perhaps Paris will treat that menace with the priority it deserves.
- MengerSponge 4y ago
  I know you're being sarcastic, but yes, Paris is absolutely treating that menace with the priority it deserves. They've removed parking and turned a lot of streets into pedestrian/bicycle only (with gates or bollards for emergency vehicle access). Most streets are limited to 30kph (18mph). Converted entire lanes of some streets to bike lanes. https://www.childinthecity.org/2021/09/01/streets-to-schools-rolled-out-in-paris-and-speed-limits-cut/ https://www.childinthecity.org/2021/09/01/streets-to-schools...
  - Kuinox 4y ago
    Still not enough, on french r/fuckcars: https://old.reddit.com/r/EnculerLesVoitures/comments/11chtfh/pour_gagner_quelques_secondes_ils_mettent_en/ https://old.reddit.com/r/EnculerLesVoitures/comments/11chtfh...
    - MengerSponge 4y ago
      This kind of shenanigans either leads to a lot more car lanes, or even less car lanes and permissions. Paris has tried "more", and they're really enjoying the safety, air quality, and convenience of less. I'm optimistic they'll keep following the Dutch model. You've seen the pictures of Amsterdam in the 70's, after all.
- shtopointo 4y ago
  No disagreement here. I personally think cars should be (mostly) removed from cities. It's incredible how much you can get done on a bike on a proper bike path + the rest 10% of cases could be handled by public transit.
camillomiller 4y ago
It’s nice to spot the Americans under this comment going for the “it’s not guns that kill people, it’s people” argument.
gorgoiler 4y ago
I don’t agree with it, but I understand why people ride these on the sidewalk rather than the roads. A pothole under a 700c road bike wheel will be a jarring annoyance. A pothole under a scooter wheel will knock you off into the path of an oncoming cement truck. The weight of the devices seems immaterial when the human riding it is 50kg to 100kg. You’re getting tackled by at least 50% of a linebacker but with 0% of the body armor.
- ehnto 4y ago
  I think it wouldn't matter what surface the road was though, people don't ride the scooters on the road because cars are scary and a scooter feels like Pedestrian+, very exposed. Same feeling cyclists eventually overcome to ride on roads.
concordDance 4y ago
All those things apply to bikes too. It really seems like societies ability to innovate has died completely with the rise of sedentary elderly populations (contrasted with mobile young ones) blocking all change.
- watwut 4y ago
  Speed for example does not apply. I did not seen bikes going 20mph on sidewalk with people. Ever. Bikes can go that fast, but they lack agility and acceleration so they dont do it in different places - not on side walk. Also, it is simply not true that only elderly dislikes these services.

fsh 4y ago

They are electronically limited to 20 km/h in Paris and weigh no more than a bicycle.

bombolo 4y ago
Getting hit by a bycicle at 20km/h can severely injure you.
- FpUser 4y ago
  So prohibit bikes then? I think government is more concerned about scooters competing with paid for transportation and hence reduction of revenue
  - trog 4y ago
    > So prohibit bikes then? I think government is more concerned about scooters competing with paid for transportation and hence reduction of revenue If you read the article you'll see this is based on a decision by the city's residents, 90% of whom voted against keeping them around. The article seems to refer to two main things: "reckless and drunken driving, as well as clutter on pavements". In my Australian city (I think we were the first to legalise them) they are wildly popular but I can attest to both of these things being a huge problem. I literally just walked to grab a snack and on the way back I stepped onto the road and was nearly wiped out by a scooter coming out of nowhere - illegally riding on the road. I have a collection of photos on my phone of scooters being left randomly around the streets, including across the footpath and even on the road in some cases. There is an entire class of people who use these that are just completely selfish fuckwits and do not stop to consider everyone else when they abandon them wherever they finish. I am 100% pro electric scooter. They need to have infrastructure like cars, for parking and storage and riding. My state has just announced pretty harsh laws for riders that violate them but they are not being enforced enough yet.
    - concordDance 4y ago
      > If you read the article you'll see this is based on a decision by the city's residents, 90% of whom voted against keeping them around This is a lie. I don't even need to go look anything up to call 90% turnout a lie. Actual number was probably 7%.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- twelve40 4y ago
  but... nobody seems to be talking about banning bicycles?
  - shtopointo 4y ago
    They are banned from sidewalks.
    - noahtallen 4y ago
      E scooters are just as banned from sidewalks as bikes?
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        There's scooters and scooters. It's a bit of a misnomer but there are electric scooters that are like a Vespa scooter ('Absolute beginners') and there are electric scooters that are the ones that your kid would ride when they're 5 or so (plank with two wheels, you stand on the plank and 'scoot' with your other leg). The e-scooter of the latter variety is what is of concern here, ~20kg + rider moving at ~20kph (sometimes faster). The former is definitely banned from sidewalks (though they are often parked there), the other is used on sidewalks quite frequently, in spite of that not being legal. They have shitty small wheels and are pretty dangerous for both rider and pedestrians.
        twelve40 4y ago
        if 20km/h is a problem, why can't they just mandate a lower limit city-wide. Shared e-scooters are already heavily limited and regulated, physically can't go faster than 10km/h in large chunks of the city center already. Unlike cars or regular bicycles, shared e-scooters can be physically limited to any desired speed with one flip of a central switch. A total ban seems like looking for a scapegoat.
    - goatlover 4y ago
      Yet I see people riding bikes on sidewalks, usually on busy roads without bike lanes. Doubt the police bother ticketing them anymore than they do people riding scooters on sidewalks or without helmets. At least where I’m from.
deanc 4y ago
Practically all their weight is at the base. Your ankles or legs will be shattered if you’re hit by one.
janosdebugs 4y ago
Except bikes have a much larger turn radius and are much more bulky than a scooter. You can zip between people with a scooter no problem, but it is tricky to do with a bike. As someone who ditched a car for a bike, I had several almost-accidents with these things and it was always down to reckless driving and trying to pull stunts on these things.

lmm 4y ago

I've heard there are some crazy people who try to drive vehicles weighing a tonne or more in the city at as much as 40mph, and they often find their way onto the pavements too. Perhaps Paris will treat that menace with the priority it deserves.

MengerSponge 4y ago
I know you're being sarcastic, but yes, Paris is absolutely treating that menace with the priority it deserves. They've removed parking and turned a lot of streets into pedestrian/bicycle only (with gates or bollards for emergency vehicle access). Most streets are limited to 30kph (18mph). Converted entire lanes of some streets to bike lanes. https://www.childinthecity.org/2021/09/01/streets-to-schools-rolled-out-in-paris-and-speed-limits-cut/ https://www.childinthecity.org/2021/09/01/streets-to-schools...
- Kuinox 4y ago
  Still not enough, on french r/fuckcars: https://old.reddit.com/r/EnculerLesVoitures/comments/11chtfh/pour_gagner_quelques_secondes_ils_mettent_en/ https://old.reddit.com/r/EnculerLesVoitures/comments/11chtfh...
  - MengerSponge 4y ago
    This kind of shenanigans either leads to a lot more car lanes, or even less car lanes and permissions. Paris has tried "more", and they're really enjoying the safety, air quality, and convenience of less. I'm optimistic they'll keep following the Dutch model. You've seen the pictures of Amsterdam in the 70's, after all.
shtopointo 4y ago
No disagreement here. I personally think cars should be (mostly) removed from cities. It's incredible how much you can get done on a bike on a proper bike path + the rest 10% of cases could be handled by public transit.

camillomiller 4y ago

It’s nice to spot the Americans under this comment going for the “it’s not guns that kill people, it’s people” argument.

gorgoiler 4y ago

I don’t agree with it, but I understand why people ride these on the sidewalk rather than the roads. A pothole under a 700c road bike wheel will be a jarring annoyance. A pothole under a scooter wheel will knock you off into the path of an oncoming cement truck. The weight of the devices seems immaterial when the human riding it is 50kg to 100kg. You’re getting tackled by at least 50% of a linebacker but with 0% of the body armor.

ehnto 4y ago
I think it wouldn't matter what surface the road was though, people don't ride the scooters on the road because cars are scary and a scooter feels like Pedestrian+, very exposed. Same feeling cyclists eventually overcome to ride on roads.

concordDance 4y ago

All those things apply to bikes too. It really seems like societies ability to innovate has died completely with the rise of sedentary elderly populations (contrasted with mobile young ones) blocking all change.

watwut 4y ago
Speed for example does not apply. I did not seen bikes going 20mph on sidewalk with people. Ever. Bikes can go that fast, but they lack agility and acceleration so they dont do it in different places - not on side walk. Also, it is simply not true that only elderly dislikes these services.