4 ms·

But what's the point of productivity if you aren't working on things which align with larger goals of the organization? You can be the busiest person in the co

But what's the point of productivity if you aren't working on things which align with larger goals of the organization? You can be the busiest person in the company, but, if your doing work which doesn't align with the goals of the company your contribution is either useless or in many cases is actively harmful.

YokoZar 4y ago
Sounds like the company's problem. Maybe they should change their incentives so that managers actually want the right things.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Why are you so sure that legibility and alignment are the wrong things to look for in a large organization? Most of the work in a large software project is coordination between all the minds involved. The more minds, the harder this task is. Large companies don't need people who can work super productively but might work on the wrong thing for weeks before surfacing again.
- sigstoat 4y ago
  > Maybe they should change their incentives so that managers actually want the right things what's the incentive structure for mid-level managers that maximizes productivity, but doesn't have the managers whipping the staff to work harder?
Cardinal7167 4y ago
I think what OP means (and I would be inclined to agree) is that companies will take significant cuts to productivity in order to feel more secure and informed of the progress, even if that feeling is not grounded in data.
- serial_dev 4y ago
  The word you are looking for is micromanagement.
  - brailsafe 4y ago
    I think that's the word that describes the whole thread and the topic.
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    Running the organization with a profiler in production
Kamq 4y ago
> But what's the point of productivity if you aren't working on things which align with larger goals of the organization? Assuming larger goals on the level of "profit", sure. There's no point. But alignment that people harp on about tends to be on specific business initiatives, or possibly KPI targets (generally tied to executive bonuses). This sort of alignment is how you get an alignment trap (where teams that are more aligned actually cost the business more and deliver less value than teams that are less aligned).
bick_nyers 4y ago
Yes but there are diminishing returns to alignment. The difference between 90% and 99% alignment is minimal, and cutting productivity in half to achieve it is not worth it. I also hypothesize that when you have systematically low productivity, the business/product no longer becomes aligned with the market. In that situation you actually don't want your employees to be 100% aligned with the business.
lifeisstillgood 4y ago
Goals at what level? I mean the goals for the CEO are so broad almost anything that is not going to land the board in court is a likely candidate. But for most middle management goals are highly restrictive. I suspect that the guy who invented gmail (or rather linked ads to the text), had he asked his manager would have been told "hell no, fix the javascript bug that's assigned this week - that is putting us behind target for the month" I generally think one should measure new or increased capability as opposed to most other metrics. How is an interesting question
- cratermoon 4y ago
  > I suspect that the guy who invented gmail (or rather linked ads to the text), had he asked his manager would have been told "hell no, fix the javascript bug that's assigned this week - that is putting us behind target for the month" The history of gmail is that it started as what Google called a 20% project. A side project the developer, Paul Buchheit, worked on with the knowledge of his managers and peers.
brailsafe 4y ago
Right, and to accomplish this, it's best to pop in at least twice a day to confirm that there are no updates and alignment is being achieved

YokoZar 4y ago

Sounds like the company's problem. Maybe they should change their incentives so that managers actually want the right things.

lolinder 4y ago
Why are you so sure that legibility and alignment are the wrong things to look for in a large organization? Most of the work in a large software project is coordination between all the minds involved. The more minds, the harder this task is. Large companies don't need people who can work super productively but might work on the wrong thing for weeks before surfacing again.
sigstoat 4y ago
> Maybe they should change their incentives so that managers actually want the right things what's the incentive structure for mid-level managers that maximizes productivity, but doesn't have the managers whipping the staff to work harder?

Cardinal7167 4y ago

I think what OP means (and I would be inclined to agree) is that companies will take significant cuts to productivity in order to feel more secure and informed of the progress, even if that feeling is not grounded in data.

serial_dev 4y ago
The word you are looking for is micromanagement.
- brailsafe 4y ago
  I think that's the word that describes the whole thread and the topic.
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  Running the organization with a profiler in production

Kamq 4y ago

> But what's the point of productivity if you aren't working on things which align with larger goals of the organization? Assuming larger goals on the level of "profit", sure. There's no point. But alignment that people harp on about tends to be on specific business initiatives, or possibly KPI targets (generally tied to executive bonuses). This sort of alignment is how you get an alignment trap (where teams that are more aligned actually cost the business more and deliver less value than teams that are less aligned).

bick_nyers 4y ago

Yes but there are diminishing returns to alignment. The difference between 90% and 99% alignment is minimal, and cutting productivity in half to achieve it is not worth it. I also hypothesize that when you have systematically low productivity, the business/product no longer becomes aligned with the market. In that situation you actually don't want your employees to be 100% aligned with the business.

lifeisstillgood 4y ago

Goals at what level? I mean the goals for the CEO are so broad almost anything that is not going to land the board in court is a likely candidate. But for most middle management goals are highly restrictive. I suspect that the guy who invented gmail (or rather linked ads to the text), had he asked his manager would have been told "hell no, fix the javascript bug that's assigned this week - that is putting us behind target for the month" I generally think one should measure new or increased capability as opposed to most other metrics. How is an interesting question

cratermoon 4y ago
> I suspect that the guy who invented gmail (or rather linked ads to the text), had he asked his manager would have been told "hell no, fix the javascript bug that's assigned this week - that is putting us behind target for the month" The history of gmail is that it started as what Google called a 20% project. A side project the developer, Paul Buchheit, worked on with the knowledge of his managers and peers.

brailsafe 4y ago

Right, and to accomplish this, it's best to pop in at least twice a day to confirm that there are no updates and alignment is being achieved