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These comments always irk me. I am a "reasonably leveled FAANG eng" in Canada. I have enough money to do the following: - rent a 2 bedroom apartment in a sma

These comments always irk me. I am a "reasonably leveled FAANG eng" in Canada. I have enough money to do the following: - rent a 2 bedroom apartment in a smaller city. - Order food from time to time. Things that are difficult to afford: - Any level of a car (currently car share). - I don't even look at house prices almost anywhere in my province. My effective tax rate is around 48% and with the way things keep increasing in price I will likely never own a home. Returning to the original question .... Am I rich?

afavour 4y ago
Another reason why “rich” as an absolute term rarely makes sense. Are you rich? I don’t know. Are you richer than the person cooking the food you order from time to time? Almost definitely yes. Are you richer than most people who live around you? Likely still yes.
hattmall 4y ago
Most likely, yes, you are. What is your salary? What is the median salary and household income. By world standards you are certainly very rich, but probably even for Canada yes, you are rich.
- 3vidence 4y ago
  I guess by world standards working almost any job in G7 makes you relatively rich so I'm not sure that is a useful standard. Not sure if you're Canadian. But in case you're not most of Canadians net worth are tied up in housing that had been exploding in price the past few decades. For most normal jobs what you make is pretty irrelevant compared to what do you own. Many older teachers in Canada are far far richer than the equivalent of senior / staff SWEs. Canada has become a very difficult place to "earn" your way to becoming "rich" without inherited wealth. I think your definition of rich might be much closer to ... Maybe middle class (definitely not upper middle class). In addition to this I grew up in objective poverty by Canadian standards so I'm not sure what you are on about.
tensor 4y ago
Assuming you make something like 130k CAD you are in the top 5% of earners in Canada and the top 1% in the world. Hacker news and other online communities are extremely biased in terms of representation of income. It's often hard for people to truly grasp how utterly poor the vast majority of the population is. This also leads the wealthy to be confused as to why tech workers are often so hated and also envied in the general population. Essentially we are the rich, meanwhile we pretend we are somehow "average" simply because we only look at those very few people even richer than us. For the actual average person these conversations are wealthy people complaining that they are not as wealthy as other wealthy people. I don't blame them for having no sympathy. Then you get articles and comments talking about the "end of in person work" pretending as though the majority of people who will never work from home because their jobs are such that they cannot are somehow simply not even people. It's not a good look.
- akomtu 4y ago
  Being rich is not about how much you earn, it's about how much you have.
  - 3vidence 4y ago
    Exactly this is the point I'm trying to get across. Additionally I don't think most people on HN know what it's like to come from generational poverty. Having to take out bad loans when you are young to afford basics. Having parents leave / die early. Having to take care of elderly / sick relatives who can't afford to take care of themselves. Just getting a "high paying" job does not automatically erase all those things and make you rich.
  - tensor 4y ago
    You have objectively more than 95% of the population. You are rich.
    - akomtu 4y ago
      It's not about percentiles. It's about not having to work. Otherwise we would need to call the top 5% of a homeless camp "rich", and the bottom 95% of a royal family "poor".
gruez 4y ago
>Things that are difficult to afford: >- Any level of a car (currently car share). >My effective tax rate is around 48% I have a hard time believing this. Assuming you live in Ontario, the most populous province, 48% marginal rate translates to an income of at least $165k/yr. That works out to a take-home of $102k/year, or $8498/month. With that much money I don't see how it's "difficult to afford" a car. Even we assume you live in Toronto (ie. not a "smaller city") and pay $3000/month for a 2 bedroom, that still leaves you with nearly $5.5k to play with. All of this assumes a single earner household. If you have a partner contributing income as well, I don't see how you can't also afford to buy an apartment after a few years of saving.
aprdm 4y ago
How? At 250-400k tc you can easily live a great life in Vancouver which is expensive. Including buying a townhouse
dwild 4y ago
Are you kidding? You definitely don't have an effective tax rate of 48%... Here in Quebec (which has the highest tax rate) that would make you higher than 400k a year... (45% at that point) [1]. You most probably meant marginal rate, and probably live in a pretty high cost area, but still 160k shouldn't stop you from being quite wealthy. I'm closer to 100k, my SO own a business and make very little money. I rent a 2 bedrooms apartments close to Montreal, I order food regularly, own a Volt and I am currently looking at house 30 minutes away from Montreal. It's much cheaper than elsewhere in Canada though, [1] https://www.rcgt.com/app/uploads/2023/03/individual_taxation_quebec_2023.pdf https://www.rcgt.com/app/uploads/2023/03/individual_taxation...
- 3vidence 4y ago
  FAANG companies like to give compensation in the form of stocks and other "bonuses" which are automatically taxed at 50% regardless of income. With that being said I did miss speak. It's 42% effective tax rate (with nearly 0 back on tax return) I can say I definitely dont make anywhere near 400k and idk if you know but Ontario is crazy expensive for everything
  - ghiculescu 4y ago
    It’s still hard to believe you can’t afford a car on that tax bracket.

afavour 4y ago

Another reason why “rich” as an absolute term rarely makes sense. Are you rich? I don’t know. Are you richer than the person cooking the food you order from time to time? Almost definitely yes. Are you richer than most people who live around you? Likely still yes.

hattmall 4y ago

Most likely, yes, you are. What is your salary? What is the median salary and household income. By world standards you are certainly very rich, but probably even for Canada yes, you are rich.

3vidence 4y ago
I guess by world standards working almost any job in G7 makes you relatively rich so I'm not sure that is a useful standard. Not sure if you're Canadian. But in case you're not most of Canadians net worth are tied up in housing that had been exploding in price the past few decades. For most normal jobs what you make is pretty irrelevant compared to what do you own. Many older teachers in Canada are far far richer than the equivalent of senior / staff SWEs. Canada has become a very difficult place to "earn" your way to becoming "rich" without inherited wealth. I think your definition of rich might be much closer to ... Maybe middle class (definitely not upper middle class). In addition to this I grew up in objective poverty by Canadian standards so I'm not sure what you are on about.

tensor 4y ago

Assuming you make something like 130k CAD you are in the top 5% of earners in Canada and the top 1% in the world. Hacker news and other online communities are extremely biased in terms of representation of income. It's often hard for people to truly grasp how utterly poor the vast majority of the population is. This also leads the wealthy to be confused as to why tech workers are often so hated and also envied in the general population. Essentially we are the rich, meanwhile we pretend we are somehow "average" simply because we only look at those very few people even richer than us. For the actual average person these conversations are wealthy people complaining that they are not as wealthy as other wealthy people. I don't blame them for having no sympathy. Then you get articles and comments talking about the "end of in person work" pretending as though the majority of people who will never work from home because their jobs are such that they cannot are somehow simply not even people. It's not a good look.

akomtu 4y ago
Being rich is not about how much you earn, it's about how much you have.
- 3vidence 4y ago
  Exactly this is the point I'm trying to get across. Additionally I don't think most people on HN know what it's like to come from generational poverty. Having to take out bad loans when you are young to afford basics. Having parents leave / die early. Having to take care of elderly / sick relatives who can't afford to take care of themselves. Just getting a "high paying" job does not automatically erase all those things and make you rich.
- tensor 4y ago
  You have objectively more than 95% of the population. You are rich.
  - akomtu 4y ago
    It's not about percentiles. It's about not having to work. Otherwise we would need to call the top 5% of a homeless camp "rich", and the bottom 95% of a royal family "poor".

gruez 4y ago

>Things that are difficult to afford: >- Any level of a car (currently car share). >My effective tax rate is around 48% I have a hard time believing this. Assuming you live in Ontario, the most populous province, 48% marginal rate translates to an income of at least $165k/yr. That works out to a take-home of $102k/year, or $8498/month. With that much money I don't see how it's "difficult to afford" a car. Even we assume you live in Toronto (ie. not a "smaller city") and pay $3000/month for a 2 bedroom, that still leaves you with nearly $5.5k to play with. All of this assumes a single earner household. If you have a partner contributing income as well, I don't see how you can't also afford to buy an apartment after a few years of saving.

aprdm 4y ago

How? At 250-400k tc you can easily live a great life in Vancouver which is expensive. Including buying a townhouse

dwild 4y ago

Are you kidding? You definitely don't have an effective tax rate of 48%... Here in Quebec (which has the highest tax rate) that would make you higher than 400k a year... (45% at that point) [1]. You most probably meant marginal rate, and probably live in a pretty high cost area, but still 160k shouldn't stop you from being quite wealthy. I'm closer to 100k, my SO own a business and make very little money. I rent a 2 bedrooms apartments close to Montreal, I order food regularly, own a Volt and I am currently looking at house 30 minutes away from Montreal. It's much cheaper than elsewhere in Canada though, [1] https://www.rcgt.com/app/uploads/2023/03/individual_taxation_quebec_2023.pdf https://www.rcgt.com/app/uploads/2023/03/individual_taxation...

3vidence 4y ago
FAANG companies like to give compensation in the form of stocks and other "bonuses" which are automatically taxed at 50% regardless of income. With that being said I did miss speak. It's 42% effective tax rate (with nearly 0 back on tax return) I can say I definitely dont make anywhere near 400k and idk if you know but Ontario is crazy expensive for everything
- ghiculescu 4y ago
  It’s still hard to believe you can’t afford a car on that tax bracket.