4 ms·

Every managers from small and big rims I've heard or talked to say the same thing about remote working, not just CEOs of RBC and Elon. Remote work kills product

Every managers from small and big rims I've heard or talked to say the same thing about remote working, not just CEOs of RBC and Elon. Remote work kills productivity. It's great as an option, especialy during storms and for parents, and maybe keep the rockstar Brent around, but apart from that it's a net loss.

warning26 4y ago
As someone who hates WFH and always has, I believe that working from an office brings intangible benefits. WFH breeds isolation. If you're WFH, I ask you this: when was the last time you met up with someone outside of your household for longer than 10 minutes?
- surgical_fire 4y ago
  > WFH breeds isolation. If you're WFH, I ask you this: when was the last time you met up with someone outside of your household for longer than 10 minutes? What if the vast majority prefer some level of isolation? What if they prefer to socialize with people outside of work?
  - warning26 4y ago
    > What if the vast majority prefer some level of isolation? Many preferences are not necessarily the best for us. I would prefer to eat nothing but hamburgers and never exercise, but that doesn’t mean I should. > What if they prefer to socialize with people outside of work? For most people, I would argue this simply doesn’t happen very often. (Hence my question in my parent comment)
    - surgical_fire 4y ago
      > Many preferences are not necessarily the best for us. That might be said for the preference to work from an office. > For most people, I would argue this simply doesn’t happen very often. Well, perhaps those people ought to change their habits.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  Yesterday. Haven't today yet since I went for a hike with my dog. My social life and my work life are not the same thing.
- cudgy 4y ago
  How does having more time per day to socialize outside of work by avoiding commutes result in less socializing outside of work? Intuitively it makes no sense. Also, many people have families and choose to spend significant time with them instead of socializing at the workplace. Trust me, people with families, especially young kids, are usually not feeling isolated. With wfh and no commutes, they might even have some time to choose to be isolated during a run or other activity.
deely3 4y ago
How did they calculate productivity?
- TeeMassive 4y ago
  Issues resolved per months, story points solved, deployments per day reduced, time to deliver increased, failure rates increased, etc. Also plain old Teams / tracking software showing you away more often more longer.
surgical_fire 4y ago
This is an extraordinary claim, and as such it would require extraordinary evidence. I'll counter you baseless claim with a baseless claim of my own - there's no evidence that WTH lowered performance or productivity. Quite the opposite, it likely improved.
cudgy 4y ago
Even if what your narrative claim holds true across the board (which I doubt), it represents a net loss to companies of how much? A few tickets every week? Also, the wfh trend is new and workflows are still being perfected of course; there is room for improvement. What about the huge gains for both employees and companies? For companies: much lower real estate costs, happier employees, access to workers across a larger geographic area, possibly lower wages paid, happier families of employees now that mom, dad, boyfriend, friend, wife, or husband aren’t commuting 5-10 hours per week For employees: a better office and equipment in many cases and thereby more focus on work in many cases, access to live in a larger geographic region, no commutes, more stability since no move required when changing jobs, stronger communities now that people can stay in one place longer, happier families now that mom, dad, boyfriend, friend, wife, or husband aren’t commuting 5-10 hours per week

warning26 4y ago

As someone who hates WFH and always has, I believe that working from an office brings intangible benefits. WFH breeds isolation. If you're WFH, I ask you this: when was the last time you met up with someone outside of your household for longer than 10 minutes?

surgical_fire 4y ago
> WFH breeds isolation. If you're WFH, I ask you this: when was the last time you met up with someone outside of your household for longer than 10 minutes? What if the vast majority prefer some level of isolation? What if they prefer to socialize with people outside of work?
- warning26 4y ago
  > What if the vast majority prefer some level of isolation? Many preferences are not necessarily the best for us. I would prefer to eat nothing but hamburgers and never exercise, but that doesn’t mean I should. > What if they prefer to socialize with people outside of work? For most people, I would argue this simply doesn’t happen very often. (Hence my question in my parent comment)
  - surgical_fire 4y ago
    > Many preferences are not necessarily the best for us. That might be said for the preference to work from an office. > For most people, I would argue this simply doesn’t happen very often. Well, perhaps those people ought to change their habits.
dghlsakjg 4y ago
Yesterday. Haven't today yet since I went for a hike with my dog. My social life and my work life are not the same thing.
cudgy 4y ago
How does having more time per day to socialize outside of work by avoiding commutes result in less socializing outside of work? Intuitively it makes no sense. Also, many people have families and choose to spend significant time with them instead of socializing at the workplace. Trust me, people with families, especially young kids, are usually not feeling isolated. With wfh and no commutes, they might even have some time to choose to be isolated during a run or other activity.

deely3 4y ago

How did they calculate productivity?

TeeMassive 4y ago
Issues resolved per months, story points solved, deployments per day reduced, time to deliver increased, failure rates increased, etc. Also plain old Teams / tracking software showing you away more often more longer.

surgical_fire 4y ago

This is an extraordinary claim, and as such it would require extraordinary evidence. I'll counter you baseless claim with a baseless claim of my own - there's no evidence that WTH lowered performance or productivity. Quite the opposite, it likely improved.

cudgy 4y ago

Even if what your narrative claim holds true across the board (which I doubt), it represents a net loss to companies of how much? A few tickets every week? Also, the wfh trend is new and workflows are still being perfected of course; there is room for improvement. What about the huge gains for both employees and companies? For companies: much lower real estate costs, happier employees, access to workers across a larger geographic area, possibly lower wages paid, happier families of employees now that mom, dad, boyfriend, friend, wife, or husband aren’t commuting 5-10 hours per week For employees: a better office and equipment in many cases and thereby more focus on work in many cases, access to live in a larger geographic region, no commutes, more stability since no move required when changing jobs, stronger communities now that people can stay in one place longer, happier families now that mom, dad, boyfriend, friend, wife, or husband aren’t commuting 5-10 hours per week