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That’s how the critics of these programs spiked the programs. “Welfare Queens” were supposedly driving around with Cadillacs, so controls had to be in place. I

That’s how the critics of these programs spiked the programs. “Welfare Queens” were supposedly driving around with Cadillacs, so controls had to be in place. I spent several years working on social services IT. The biggest welfare beneficiaries are companies like IBM, CSC, Accenture, Unisys, Northrup Grumman, etc and their employees. That’s why some politicians were so terrified of the COVID relief programs. The government efficiently provided direct cash aid to millions of people with minimal fraud while the complex controlled systems like unemployment insurance were just raided by fraudsters. We made people’s lives measurably better, saved the economy from collapse, etc, and then took it all away.

vinyl7 4y ago
Less than 35% of the $800 billion in PPP loans actually went to workers, say economists https://www.fastcompany.com/90713747/workers-800-billion-ppp-loans-economists https://www.fastcompany.com/90713747/workers-800-billion-ppp...
- deleted 4y ago
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- pnutjam 4y ago
  Sure, now do the tax credits to parents and the pandemic EBT. These are what we're talking about. PPP was a giveaway to moneyed interests because god forbid we pay it directly to workers.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  Jesus, $800 billion?
orzig 4y ago
> Minimal fraud You’re going to have to be more specific or offer some evidence, because a cursory search suggests there was massive fraud. To take the least sensationalized source: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-takes-action-against-covid-19-fraud https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-takes-acti... They’re estimating more than half a billion dollars and are just getting started.
- Spooky23 4y ago
  I was. The government efficiently gave cash to almost everyone. That was pretty close to UBI. The biggest issue with direct payments were due to the way separated couples claim dependents. UI, which I specifically mentioned, was a fraud carnival.
  - orzig 4y ago
    Got it, I stand corrected (and better informed). Thank you, too few internet conversations are this constructive.
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      No worries! I lived closer to some this stuff and could have been more clear.
- flaviut 4y ago
  I believe they're referring specifically to the Economic Impact Payments, since those had zero controls from most peoples' perspective. Money just showed up in your bank account.
- araes 4y ago
  This. From https://www.govexec.com/management/2023/03/coronavirus-roundup-spotlight-improper-payments-covid-relief-programs/384673/ https://www.govexec.com/management/2023/03/coronavirus-round... $247 billion in improper payments in fiscal 2022 "At least" $35 billion in pandemic relief money - $29 billion was in the Pandemic Protection Program - $6.9 billion was in the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program IRS has 975 tax and money laundering cases related to pandemic fraud with a total of $3.2 billion in alleged fraud. 236 already sentenced for avg. 37 months in prison. ~100% conviction rate. From: https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-105523.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-105523.pdf "the lower bound of this fraud rate (7.6 percent) extrapolated to total spending across all Unemployment Insurance (UI) programs ... suggest over $60 billion in fraudulent UI payments." - Cases of Proven Fraud: "currently $4.3 billion dollars of fraud based on formal determinations" From: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-22-104397 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-22-104397 and https://www.asas.org/taking-stock/blog-post/taking-stock/2022/09/29/report-concludes-fraud-likely-occurred-in-coronavirus-food-assistance-program https://www.asas.org/taking-stock/blog-post/taking-stock/202... - Coronavirus Food Assistance Program (CFAP) provided producers $31.0 billion for various commodities ... half of the producers that GAO reviewed did not provide full support for their payments. The payments are therefore potentially improper. - USDA’s Business Center 2021 payment integrity review for CFAP estimated that CFAP had a significant improper payment rate for the fiscal year 2020 ... estimated that that $450M were improper.
deleted 4y ago
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gfdsgfsdgfs 4y ago
What did you expect when there were government mandates to shut down companies?
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vinyl7 4y ago

Less than 35% of the $800 billion in PPP loans actually went to workers, say economists https://www.fastcompany.com/90713747/workers-800-billion-ppp-loans-economists https://www.fastcompany.com/90713747/workers-800-billion-ppp...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pnutjam 4y ago
Sure, now do the tax credits to parents and the pandemic EBT. These are what we're talking about. PPP was a giveaway to moneyed interests because god forbid we pay it directly to workers.
red-iron-pine 4y ago
Jesus, $800 billion?

orzig 4y ago

> Minimal fraud You’re going to have to be more specific or offer some evidence, because a cursory search suggests there was massive fraud. To take the least sensationalized source: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-takes-action-against-covid-19-fraud https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-takes-acti... They’re estimating more than half a billion dollars and are just getting started.

Spooky23 4y ago
I was. The government efficiently gave cash to almost everyone. That was pretty close to UBI. The biggest issue with direct payments were due to the way separated couples claim dependents. UI, which I specifically mentioned, was a fraud carnival.
- orzig 4y ago
  Got it, I stand corrected (and better informed). Thank you, too few internet conversations are this constructive.
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    No worries! I lived closer to some this stuff and could have been more clear.
flaviut 4y ago
I believe they're referring specifically to the Economic Impact Payments, since those had zero controls from most peoples' perspective. Money just showed up in your bank account.
araes 4y ago
This. From https://www.govexec.com/management/2023/03/coronavirus-roundup-spotlight-improper-payments-covid-relief-programs/384673/ https://www.govexec.com/management/2023/03/coronavirus-round... $247 billion in improper payments in fiscal 2022 "At least" $35 billion in pandemic relief money - $29 billion was in the Pandemic Protection Program - $6.9 billion was in the Economic Injury Disaster Loan program IRS has 975 tax and money laundering cases related to pandemic fraud with a total of $3.2 billion in alleged fraud. 236 already sentenced for avg. 37 months in prison. ~100% conviction rate. From: https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-105523.pdf https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-105523.pdf "the lower bound of this fraud rate (7.6 percent) extrapolated to total spending across all Unemployment Insurance (UI) programs ... suggest over $60 billion in fraudulent UI payments." - Cases of Proven Fraud: "currently $4.3 billion dollars of fraud based on formal determinations" From: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-22-104397 https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-22-104397 and https://www.asas.org/taking-stock/blog-post/taking-stock/2022/09/29/report-concludes-fraud-likely-occurred-in-coronavirus-food-assistance-program https://www.asas.org/taking-stock/blog-post/taking-stock/202... - Coronavirus Food Assistance Program (CFAP) provided producers $31.0 billion for various commodities ... half of the producers that GAO reviewed did not provide full support for their payments. The payments are therefore potentially improper. - USDA’s Business Center 2021 payment integrity review for CFAP estimated that CFAP had a significant improper payment rate for the fiscal year 2020 ... estimated that that $450M were improper.

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gfdsgfsdgfs 4y ago

What did you expect when there were government mandates to shut down companies?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]