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I'm a bit in two minds about these things. On the one hand it feels wrong it was removed from the country of origin. On the other hand would it have been as wel

I'm a bit in two minds about these things. On the one hand it feels wrong it was removed from the country of origin. On the other hand would it have been as well preserved if it hadn't been? On the third hand, this is clearly a cultural concern as had I been born 100 years ago I wouldn't have cared in the slightest about removing a document from primitive people. And had I been born 100 years in the future I wouldn't have the slightest regard for the biological humans' concerns. Perhaps it all works out.

credit_guy 4y ago
The people who live in Egypt now are not any closer to the writers of the Rhind Papyrus than the people who live in Norway or Argentina. The Rhind Papyrus belongs to the world heritage, not to the Egypt heritage.
- pestatije 4y ago
  It was stolen... what are you thinking?
  - credit_guy 4y ago
    Egypt (like probably every other place on Earth) experienced countless migrations. Egypt was under Persian rule for 300 years, then under Greco-Roman rule for 1000 years. After that (1400 years ago) it was conquered by the Arabs, and to this day it considers itself an Arab state. For many hundreds of years during this period (roughly from 1200 to 1800) Egypt imported lots of slaves that became soldiers (the "mamluks"). Most of these slaves were of Slavic origin, thus resulting in the English word "slave" coming from "Slav". Bottom line, Egypt was a huge melting pot for at least 3000 years, and most likely before too. People who live now in Egypt can probably trace most of their ancestors to regions outside of Egypt. They are not more heirs of the writers of the Rhind Papyrus than you and me. But let's say that they are. What did the inhabitants of Egypt do about the Pharaonic era historical artifacts? They looted them time and again. Looted and sold them to the highest bidder. Maybe you want to claim that people from Egypt don't "loot" the Ancient Egypt artifacts, they only "take possession" of them, since they are the rightful owners. But if you claim that, then you are not in luck, my friend. This is what happened to the Rhind Papyrus. It was found (or looted) by the locals, who sold it to the highest bidder, who happened to be a guy from the Great Britain. The papyrus was not stolen, it was simply bought.
    - pestatije 4y ago
      What about all the art looted from the jews and subsequently sold overseas? > was not stolen, it was simply bought.
      - credit_guy 4y ago
        How is that related with what we are discussing here? We are talking about a thing that was made 3500 years ago. Who is its rightful owner? It's a completely different situation than stealing from someone who is alive. How in the world do these things seem similar to you?
        pestatije 4y ago
        It's exactly the same thing: you bought a stolen good, please return it
        credit_guy 4y ago
        Return means return to the rightful owner. Who is the rightful owner here?
cperciva 4y ago
I think my answer to this would be "thanks for preserving this for us; we're ready to take it back now". These artifacts absolutely belong to their countries of origin, but we have a collective duty to ensure that they are protected -- and museums should ensure that conditions are in place for them to be properly handled before returning them.
- olddustytrail 4y ago
  That's a good answer. I think you're right.
- lupire 4y ago
  World heritage objects (over 1000years old?) should be under multilateral supervision and spread across the world, with every region having a sampling of artifacts from the whole world.
lupire 4y ago
Casually calling for worldwide genocide (anthrocide) in the next century isn't cool. Humanity isn't going virtual.

credit_guy 4y ago

The people who live in Egypt now are not any closer to the writers of the Rhind Papyrus than the people who live in Norway or Argentina. The Rhind Papyrus belongs to the world heritage, not to the Egypt heritage.

pestatije 4y ago
It was stolen... what are you thinking?
- credit_guy 4y ago
  Egypt (like probably every other place on Earth) experienced countless migrations. Egypt was under Persian rule for 300 years, then under Greco-Roman rule for 1000 years. After that (1400 years ago) it was conquered by the Arabs, and to this day it considers itself an Arab state. For many hundreds of years during this period (roughly from 1200 to 1800) Egypt imported lots of slaves that became soldiers (the "mamluks"). Most of these slaves were of Slavic origin, thus resulting in the English word "slave" coming from "Slav". Bottom line, Egypt was a huge melting pot for at least 3000 years, and most likely before too. People who live now in Egypt can probably trace most of their ancestors to regions outside of Egypt. They are not more heirs of the writers of the Rhind Papyrus than you and me. But let's say that they are. What did the inhabitants of Egypt do about the Pharaonic era historical artifacts? They looted them time and again. Looted and sold them to the highest bidder. Maybe you want to claim that people from Egypt don't "loot" the Ancient Egypt artifacts, they only "take possession" of them, since they are the rightful owners. But if you claim that, then you are not in luck, my friend. This is what happened to the Rhind Papyrus. It was found (or looted) by the locals, who sold it to the highest bidder, who happened to be a guy from the Great Britain. The papyrus was not stolen, it was simply bought.
  - pestatije 4y ago
    What about all the art looted from the jews and subsequently sold overseas? > was not stolen, it was simply bought.
    - credit_guy 4y ago
      How is that related with what we are discussing here? We are talking about a thing that was made 3500 years ago. Who is its rightful owner? It's a completely different situation than stealing from someone who is alive. How in the world do these things seem similar to you?
      - pestatije 4y ago
        It's exactly the same thing: you bought a stolen good, please return it
        credit_guy 4y ago
        Return means return to the rightful owner. Who is the rightful owner here?

cperciva 4y ago

I think my answer to this would be "thanks for preserving this for us; we're ready to take it back now". These artifacts absolutely belong to their countries of origin, but we have a collective duty to ensure that they are protected -- and museums should ensure that conditions are in place for them to be properly handled before returning them.

olddustytrail 4y ago
That's a good answer. I think you're right.
lupire 4y ago
World heritage objects (over 1000years old?) should be under multilateral supervision and spread across the world, with every region having a sampling of artifacts from the whole world.

lupire 4y ago

Casually calling for worldwide genocide (anthrocide) in the next century isn't cool. Humanity isn't going virtual.