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I learned this week that "occupational burnout" [1] often results in the brain developing a trauma response to the idea of returning to the same job/tasks, whic

I learned this week that "occupational burnout" [1] often results in the brain developing a trauma response to the idea of returning to the same job/tasks, which is why people will sometimes entirely switch careers. It absolutely is the brain trying to protect itself. Not all forms of burnout results in trauma responses, but they all require extended recovery. Burnout is preventable, but once it has been reached, the damage has been done and rest is required. No joke: 3-6 months is the usual recovery time. Paths to occupational burnout: - No mental rest from work. "Taking it home with you." Often skipping breaks to keep focused. - Jobs that require high amounts of mental processing for long periods (customer service, development, troubleshooting, multitasking, urgent-response). "Brown out" is the stage when you're still capable of functioning in spurts, but your brain/body is sending warning signs (that we have been taught to ignore). 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_burnout?wprov=sfti1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_burnout?wprov=sft...

tayo42 4y ago
3 to 6 months is interesting, it almost exactly lines up with my experience of leaving work for a bit. at around three months, i mostly stopped feeling like shit and angry about some of the things that happened. i felt like i was a baseline. at around 6 months i started to feel actually good. also at 6 months im trying to get back to work and the interview process and job market sucks so im feeling miserable again haha
- arthurcolle 4y ago
  If you ever wanna chat I'm in the same boat. Just keep your head above water and try to think positively. Playing with ChatGPT and the dirty cheap OpenAI APIs has helped me a lot =)
  - ChildOfChaos 4y ago
    Curious, as in it's something you just found interesting or as in it's something you use to talk through your issues with?
    - arthurcolle 4y ago
      Oh, I just meant, I'm also looking for jobs, the market sucks, interviews go fine and then I hear nothing back. I'm just doing my own thing and I empathize is all I meant! Oh and in terms of ChatGPT, I just meant it's something fun that I use for other interesting projects due to how flexible the composability is (LangChain, etc)... not so much directly as a therapist-bot if that's what you were asking.
  - tayo42 4y ago
    Thanks! the freedom of unemployment is still nice to have
- leetrout 4y ago
  I just finished 4 weeks back at work after 6 months off. Same timeline as you- took 3 months to just let go. Interviewing sucks. My email is in my profile if you want to chat. Good luck with the return to work.
  - tayo42 4y ago
    Thanks hope those 4 weeks werent to bad for you. The freedom of unemployment is amazing
- kirso 4y ago
  Same here, I fell into depression after burning out in my job and it took me exactly somewhere in between 3-6 months to get out. There was no specific point when I felt like: Ok, I am out of this mode, but the transition was visible. Don't wish this feeling on anyone - its a terrible terrible place to be.
alrs 4y ago
It's exponential back-off. It's three months the first burnout, six months the second, one year for the third.
- rexpop 4y ago
  This is the pattern with depression, according to Sapolsky in 2010: successive episodes increase in severity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc
Metus 4y ago
What are the warning signs? The paths you described kind of describe things I do. Sometimes they are necessary and I am taking steps to prevent them. At the same time I worry I already shut down the warning signs. Sometimes I wonder whether "burnout" or "occupational burnout" describes something I have experienced in college. It was not a spectacular or intense thing, just losing interest in my subject completely and avoiding getting started with exercises, even though I was decently good at my subject and loved the hours and hours I spent studying.
- Sharlin 4y ago
  The usual, some combination of sleeping difficulties or sleeping too much, constantly being annoyed by nothing in particular, brain fog, forgetting things, procrastination, difficulty reaching a flow state, general disinterest in certain or most things, acute anxiety/stress response to thinking about things that should be done, increased "self-medication" with alcohol or other drugs, comfort eating, or alternatively forgetting to eat, loss of appetite.
  - Metus 4y ago
    Thank you for the list, I will take the advice to heart immediately.
  - sprkwd 4y ago
    Oh god. That might be me. But then I’ve always felt all of these things as long as I remembered.
  - Levitz 4y ago
    Sounds an awful lot like depression to me.
  - BaculumMeumEst 4y ago
    i see you’ve listed out the side effects of existing in 2023
  - TeMPOraL 4y ago
    This is me since... at least high school. Probably earlier, but my memories are spotty. Almost all the things you mention present, often acutely, in relation to anything that is "to be done" - be it work or personal. Anything can trigger it, the moment it stops being something I do on a whim, and becomes something that I plan or is expected of me. No underlying medical condition to attribute it to. What to do then?
csallen 4y ago
I've never conceptualized of burnout as trauma, but this makes a lot of sense. The best definition I've read of trauma is, "an event or series of events that overwhelm a persons' ability to cope." Almost like tearing a muscle by trying to lift something that's just too heavy to bear. But if burnout is trauma, is taking a break from work really enough to resolve the trauma? I ask because that seems insufficient in the case of other traumas, e.g. undergoing physical or emotional abuse, surviving violent accidents, etc.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  > But if burnout is trauma, is taking a break from work really enough to resolve the trauma? Apparently it isn't, much like in case of physical trauma. GP mentioned people switching careers. I know a person who got burned out when their boss tried to make them do 2D and later 3D design for the company, on top of their normal assignments, because he didn't want to hire a new graphics designer after the last one quit. Said person gained basic proficiency in some CAD software, Photoshop, Corel, and then burned out on 3DS Max, to the point of having strong physical reactions at the very though of it, even many years later. It's a psychological wound that can't heal, and it closed off 3D graphics as a line of work for that person. Trauma is one of the words we used when talking about it over the years.

tayo42 4y ago

3 to 6 months is interesting, it almost exactly lines up with my experience of leaving work for a bit. at around three months, i mostly stopped feeling like shit and angry about some of the things that happened. i felt like i was a baseline. at around 6 months i started to feel actually good. also at 6 months im trying to get back to work and the interview process and job market sucks so im feeling miserable again haha

arthurcolle 4y ago
If you ever wanna chat I'm in the same boat. Just keep your head above water and try to think positively. Playing with ChatGPT and the dirty cheap OpenAI APIs has helped me a lot =)
- ChildOfChaos 4y ago
  Curious, as in it's something you just found interesting or as in it's something you use to talk through your issues with?
  - arthurcolle 4y ago
    Oh, I just meant, I'm also looking for jobs, the market sucks, interviews go fine and then I hear nothing back. I'm just doing my own thing and I empathize is all I meant! Oh and in terms of ChatGPT, I just meant it's something fun that I use for other interesting projects due to how flexible the composability is (LangChain, etc)... not so much directly as a therapist-bot if that's what you were asking.
- tayo42 4y ago
  Thanks! the freedom of unemployment is still nice to have
leetrout 4y ago
I just finished 4 weeks back at work after 6 months off. Same timeline as you- took 3 months to just let go. Interviewing sucks. My email is in my profile if you want to chat. Good luck with the return to work.
- tayo42 4y ago
  Thanks hope those 4 weeks werent to bad for you. The freedom of unemployment is amazing
kirso 4y ago
Same here, I fell into depression after burning out in my job and it took me exactly somewhere in between 3-6 months to get out. There was no specific point when I felt like: Ok, I am out of this mode, but the transition was visible. Don't wish this feeling on anyone - its a terrible terrible place to be.

alrs 4y ago

It's exponential back-off. It's three months the first burnout, six months the second, one year for the third.

rexpop 4y ago
This is the pattern with depression, according to Sapolsky in 2010: successive episodes increase in severity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc

Metus 4y ago

What are the warning signs? The paths you described kind of describe things I do. Sometimes they are necessary and I am taking steps to prevent them. At the same time I worry I already shut down the warning signs. Sometimes I wonder whether "burnout" or "occupational burnout" describes something I have experienced in college. It was not a spectacular or intense thing, just losing interest in my subject completely and avoiding getting started with exercises, even though I was decently good at my subject and loved the hours and hours I spent studying.

Sharlin 4y ago
The usual, some combination of sleeping difficulties or sleeping too much, constantly being annoyed by nothing in particular, brain fog, forgetting things, procrastination, difficulty reaching a flow state, general disinterest in certain or most things, acute anxiety/stress response to thinking about things that should be done, increased "self-medication" with alcohol or other drugs, comfort eating, or alternatively forgetting to eat, loss of appetite.
- Metus 4y ago
  Thank you for the list, I will take the advice to heart immediately.
- sprkwd 4y ago
  Oh god. That might be me. But then I’ve always felt all of these things as long as I remembered.
- Levitz 4y ago
  Sounds an awful lot like depression to me.
- BaculumMeumEst 4y ago
  i see you’ve listed out the side effects of existing in 2023
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  This is me since... at least high school. Probably earlier, but my memories are spotty. Almost all the things you mention present, often acutely, in relation to anything that is "to be done" - be it work or personal. Anything can trigger it, the moment it stops being something I do on a whim, and becomes something that I plan or is expected of me. No underlying medical condition to attribute it to. What to do then?

csallen 4y ago

I've never conceptualized of burnout as trauma, but this makes a lot of sense. The best definition I've read of trauma is, "an event or series of events that overwhelm a persons' ability to cope." Almost like tearing a muscle by trying to lift something that's just too heavy to bear. But if burnout is trauma, is taking a break from work really enough to resolve the trauma? I ask because that seems insufficient in the case of other traumas, e.g. undergoing physical or emotional abuse, surviving violent accidents, etc.

TeMPOraL 4y ago
> But if burnout is trauma, is taking a break from work really enough to resolve the trauma? Apparently it isn't, much like in case of physical trauma. GP mentioned people switching careers. I know a person who got burned out when their boss tried to make them do 2D and later 3D design for the company, on top of their normal assignments, because he didn't want to hire a new graphics designer after the last one quit. Said person gained basic proficiency in some CAD software, Photoshop, Corel, and then burned out on 3DS Max, to the point of having strong physical reactions at the very though of it, even many years later. It's a psychological wound that can't heal, and it closed off 3D graphics as a line of work for that person. Trauma is one of the words we used when talking about it over the years.