4 ms·

Completely agree. A lot of this is learned mindset. The fact that lifestyles, expectations, responsibilities etc. change somewhat quickly from generation to gen

Completely agree. A lot of this is learned mindset. The fact that lifestyles, expectations, responsibilities etc. change somewhat quickly from generation to generation is understandable and something to factor in. However, taking care of one's parents when they grow old should be a norm. A strong family unit with inter generational contact (grandparents and grandchildren) to pass on values, a place to come home to when you're fighting inner demons, a place where young children are brought up to become responsible adults - this is vital for the long term health of a society. I'd be willing to bet that if family units became stronger and more well knit, it would go a long way to reduce the amount of mental health problems and resulting problems that are reportedly reaching epidemic levels.

paulryanrogers 4y ago
Consider that some don't want their parent's values passed on to the grandchildren. While I want my kids to have quality time with their grandparents, I absolutely do not want my children to become indoctrinated with "believing without seeing", climate-change apathy, hate those born different, men don't do housework, women don't fix cars, pull the ladder up behind you, etc. Living separately provides some much needed space and helps maintain some healthy boundaries. And when my kids are adults I'd rather they visit me than have to care for me. Or even that I die before developing total dependence on others, especially if it means dementia.
- grepfru_it 4y ago
  Your kids are not stupid, you know. Just as you learn from your environments, they will learn what is right from wrong. Indoctrination is the wrong word because the grandparent would not be the ones spending a majority of the time with the children. The children’s friends, classmates and teachers are the ones who will “indoctrinate” your child. Instead you are teaching that it is ok removing your grandparents from their lives because of boogiemen .. and that they will emulate your footsteps one day. That’s my outlook on it, and I don’t push family values on others. So take it with as many grains of salt as necessary
  - Timon3 4y ago
    The danger with this line of thinking is that it ignores the adaptability of humans, especially in younger years. None of us are fully rational actors, and all of us are influenced by what is around us. Sure, the degree will change based on a lot of factors and on the individuals positions - but even if you're staunchly against an idea, hearing it day in day out will over time affect your thinking, and not in a way you can consciously control. Interestingly enough, this is even acknowledged in a lot of folksy wisdom (e.g. "you are what you eat", or the very common idea of parents that children shouldn't hang out "with bad crowds", although the definition of what this is differs between parents).
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    My parents had a huge influence on me, because kids are impressionable. My kids are homeschooled for now (don't recommend) so having their grandparents here 24/7 means the grandparents would have more time with my own kids than any other human. IME, indoctrination happens in the home more than anywhere else. Having attended public school I think the outside perspectives and opinions are the only reason I (eventually) escaped the believe-without-seeing cult, yet it took more than 15 years of being out of that house.
  - cmonnow 4y ago
    [dead]
- nec4b 4y ago
  >>Consider that some don't want their parent's values passed on to the grandchildren. Nobody is forcing you/them. Not everybody is born to a happy family. But why would you be against a general rule or norm for tighter family connections? Isn't this is something worth striving to achieve. I think there is positive correlation between children's success and multiple generations working together, just as children from stable marriages are better off as the ones from broken families.
  - emodendroket 4y ago
    Because “striving to achieve” it usually takes the form of compelling people to play along regardless of their circumstances.
    - nec4b 4y ago
      You have to be more specific. Do you mean by law or by twitter mobs,...? It a weird argument anyway. Almost anything good can be used for a bad purpose. We strive to write code that is performant, extendable and bug free, but sometimes we can't, because practical reasons trump the 'ideal'. If we were compelled to do so always, that would be disastrous for our livelihoods. By your logic we shouldn't even strive for it, because of the negative possibility.
      - emodendroket 4y ago
        If you want to strive to achieve something in your personal life that's fine but that's rarely what these discussions are about.
        nec4b 4y ago
        It's a bit hard or actually impossible to have a society that has nothing to strive for.
        emodendroket 4y ago

paulryanrogers 4y ago

Consider that some don't want their parent's values passed on to the grandchildren. While I want my kids to have quality time with their grandparents, I absolutely do not want my children to become indoctrinated with "believing without seeing", climate-change apathy, hate those born different, men don't do housework, women don't fix cars, pull the ladder up behind you, etc. Living separately provides some much needed space and helps maintain some healthy boundaries. And when my kids are adults I'd rather they visit me than have to care for me. Or even that I die before developing total dependence on others, especially if it means dementia.

grepfru_it 4y ago
Your kids are not stupid, you know. Just as you learn from your environments, they will learn what is right from wrong. Indoctrination is the wrong word because the grandparent would not be the ones spending a majority of the time with the children. The children’s friends, classmates and teachers are the ones who will “indoctrinate” your child. Instead you are teaching that it is ok removing your grandparents from their lives because of boogiemen .. and that they will emulate your footsteps one day. That’s my outlook on it, and I don’t push family values on others. So take it with as many grains of salt as necessary
- Timon3 4y ago
  The danger with this line of thinking is that it ignores the adaptability of humans, especially in younger years. None of us are fully rational actors, and all of us are influenced by what is around us. Sure, the degree will change based on a lot of factors and on the individuals positions - but even if you're staunchly against an idea, hearing it day in day out will over time affect your thinking, and not in a way you can consciously control. Interestingly enough, this is even acknowledged in a lot of folksy wisdom (e.g. "you are what you eat", or the very common idea of parents that children shouldn't hang out "with bad crowds", although the definition of what this is differs between parents).
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  My parents had a huge influence on me, because kids are impressionable. My kids are homeschooled for now (don't recommend) so having their grandparents here 24/7 means the grandparents would have more time with my own kids than any other human. IME, indoctrination happens in the home more than anywhere else. Having attended public school I think the outside perspectives and opinions are the only reason I (eventually) escaped the believe-without-seeing cult, yet it took more than 15 years of being out of that house.
- cmonnow 4y ago
  [dead]
nec4b 4y ago
>>Consider that some don't want their parent's values passed on to the grandchildren. Nobody is forcing you/them. Not everybody is born to a happy family. But why would you be against a general rule or norm for tighter family connections? Isn't this is something worth striving to achieve. I think there is positive correlation between children's success and multiple generations working together, just as children from stable marriages are better off as the ones from broken families.
- emodendroket 4y ago
  Because “striving to achieve” it usually takes the form of compelling people to play along regardless of their circumstances.
  - nec4b 4y ago
    You have to be more specific. Do you mean by law or by twitter mobs,...? It a weird argument anyway. Almost anything good can be used for a bad purpose. We strive to write code that is performant, extendable and bug free, but sometimes we can't, because practical reasons trump the 'ideal'. If we were compelled to do so always, that would be disastrous for our livelihoods. By your logic we shouldn't even strive for it, because of the negative possibility.
    - emodendroket 4y ago
      If you want to strive to achieve something in your personal life that's fine but that's rarely what these discussions are about.
      - nec4b 4y ago
        It's a bit hard or actually impossible to have a society that has nothing to strive for.
        emodendroket 4y ago