4 ms·

Not sure why you're being downvoted - you're 100% correct. I believe there is good news ahead, though, at least for the United States (and the broader Americas

Not sure why you're being downvoted - you're 100% correct. I believe there is good news ahead, though, at least for the United States (and the broader Americas and Europe) because of remote work being good for family. https://eig.org/remote-work-family-formation/ https://eig.org/remote-work-family-formation/ I'm hopeful we can return to stronger family values.

Femolio 4y ago
Good parents raise food kids. Good families find a good way of handling this topic. Everyone else might just not have good parents. And therefore he is not 100% correct. It's not the duty of a child to take care of parents. They didn't ask me if I wanted to be born....
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  Quite correct. To make this a family responsibility is to end up with an unjustly heterogeneous result because families are heterogeneous. For anything approaching fairness, it needs to be a societal responsibility. Social security was created in the era of the ostensibly closely-knit, God-fearing America that people imagine was the ideal of the past. It was created because the people then observed that even with the closing at families and all of that reliance on God, the elderly died poor and ugly deaths.
- nec4b 4y ago
  >>It's not the duty of a child to take care of parents. They didn't ask me if I wanted to be born.... You are not born without responsibilities into the world. Even if you are an adult without parents or dependents, you are not free of responsibilities as long as you live in a society.
  - Femolio 4y ago
    Which allows me to make a choice. I'm even allowed to kill myself instead of caring for old people (for underlining my point). We force you to take care vs. you care out of your inner duty
    - nec4b 4y ago
      I agree with you. Of course nobody should force you. But in general it is positive thing to do, to take care of the elderly if you can. This is something to strive for as a society, isn't it? But the phrase "They didn't ask me if I wanted to be born" is meaningless and adds nothing of a value.
      - Femolio 4y ago
        To strive for? Not in our society. We optimized it by having people who are better in taking care than I can. With medical knowledge and more experience. I personally also don't want to live anymore if I become so unself sufficient.
        nec4b 4y ago
        I'm happy we have other people who can do to this for us too. But I don't think a stranger will take better care of a another stranger than a loving caring family member. E.g. With all my imperfections I'm still sure I'm a better caregiver for my children than an orphanage where they would be just a number, even though they are better educated about children health and development.
Analemma_ 4y ago
He’s being downvoted (as are you) because he attributed complex systemic problems to moral failures, which is a lousy discursive tactic that makes the speaker feel superior but does nothing to actually fix the problem. In this case, “just do what people did in the past” is completely useless as actionable advice, because - people are living much longer. There’s a considerable difference between caring for someone for 3 years versus 20 - people have fewer siblings and so the burden cannot be split up. Caring for an entire person by yourself is a colossal task, such that at market rates it can cost tens of thousands per year. - economic precariousness means the consequences of dropping out of the workforce are more dire None of this is addressed by snooty commandments to find God or family values. Remote work might indeed help, but even that just further proves my point— that came about because the pandemic forced it on us and any effects on the family are a happy externality, not because people made individual decisions about family values.

Femolio 4y ago

Good parents raise food kids. Good families find a good way of handling this topic. Everyone else might just not have good parents. And therefore he is not 100% correct. It's not the duty of a child to take care of parents. They didn't ask me if I wanted to be born....

shadowgovt 4y ago
Quite correct. To make this a family responsibility is to end up with an unjustly heterogeneous result because families are heterogeneous. For anything approaching fairness, it needs to be a societal responsibility. Social security was created in the era of the ostensibly closely-knit, God-fearing America that people imagine was the ideal of the past. It was created because the people then observed that even with the closing at families and all of that reliance on God, the elderly died poor and ugly deaths.
nec4b 4y ago
>>It's not the duty of a child to take care of parents. They didn't ask me if I wanted to be born.... You are not born without responsibilities into the world. Even if you are an adult without parents or dependents, you are not free of responsibilities as long as you live in a society.
- Femolio 4y ago
  Which allows me to make a choice. I'm even allowed to kill myself instead of caring for old people (for underlining my point). We force you to take care vs. you care out of your inner duty
  - nec4b 4y ago
    I agree with you. Of course nobody should force you. But in general it is positive thing to do, to take care of the elderly if you can. This is something to strive for as a society, isn't it? But the phrase "They didn't ask me if I wanted to be born" is meaningless and adds nothing of a value.
    - Femolio 4y ago
      To strive for? Not in our society. We optimized it by having people who are better in taking care than I can. With medical knowledge and more experience. I personally also don't want to live anymore if I become so unself sufficient.
      - nec4b 4y ago
        I'm happy we have other people who can do to this for us too. But I don't think a stranger will take better care of a another stranger than a loving caring family member. E.g. With all my imperfections I'm still sure I'm a better caregiver for my children than an orphanage where they would be just a number, even though they are better educated about children health and development.

Analemma_ 4y ago

He’s being downvoted (as are you) because he attributed complex systemic problems to moral failures, which is a lousy discursive tactic that makes the speaker feel superior but does nothing to actually fix the problem. In this case, “just do what people did in the past” is completely useless as actionable advice, because - people are living much longer. There’s a considerable difference between caring for someone for 3 years versus 20 - people have fewer siblings and so the burden cannot be split up. Caring for an entire person by yourself is a colossal task, such that at market rates it can cost tens of thousands per year. - economic precariousness means the consequences of dropping out of the workforce are more dire None of this is addressed by snooty commandments to find God or family values. Remote work might indeed help, but even that just further proves my point— that came about because the pandemic forced it on us and any effects on the family are a happy externality, not because people made individual decisions about family values.