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As I wrote above, the proposed (!) regulation would be based on the national housing stock. So if you are in Finnland, the energy efficiency of your house would

by tfourb 4y ago

As I wrote above, the proposed (!) regulation would be based on the national housing stock. So if you are in Finnland, the energy efficiency of your house would be compared to other finish houses, not a house in Germany. Which is the definition of "considering local situations". Also, a quick check reveals that only about 14% of the Finish population lives in rural areas [1]. Even if every single one of those persons is a house owner and poor (unlikely, as those categories are to a certain extend mutually exclusive), it would be quite feasible for the Finish government to heavily subsidize the renovation of the entirety of the rural housing stock. Nothing in the proposed regulation would keep national governments from using policy making to implement the required goals in a socially acceptable way. Also, what do you propose would be the alternative? Improving the energy efficiency of the housing stock is in most countries among the most efficient ways to conserve energy. Other approaches to conserve energy or produce the required energy in a sustainable way cost considerably more per kw/h than bringing a 50 year old house to a modern energy standard. And of course given the prevalence of oil and natural gas based heating systems in old houses, you actually have to invest in a new heating source to switch away from CO2-emitting energy sources, anyway. EDIT: quick back of the envelope math suggests that it would cost the finish government 5% of the current annual budget for each of the coming ten years to invest 20.000 Euros into each of the approximately 250.000 rural houses (assuming an average occupancy of 3 people per house). Not a bad investment considering that it would be made up in a few years through energy savings. [1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.RUR.TOTL.ZS?locations=FI https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.RUR.TOTL.ZS?location...

waihtis 4y ago
It doesn't matter if the energy efficiency rating is based on local standards when the costs aren't. Again, there is absolutely no sense blowing 20-30k on energy renovating a house that is worth 80k. If you don't think binding 5% of the entire country's budget for 10 years into upgrading old houses is an manic proposition I think we can safely agree there isn't a way for us to see this from the same angle and we can agree to disagree on this topic.
- tfourb 4y ago
  Spending 5% of the government budget for ten years on measures that reduce energy consumption by 20-30% for a third of the housing stock forever is a bargain. The 20-30k figure was based on my experience with German houses, I have no idea how much it would cost for the typical old finish house to come up to standard. Based on the very few rural finish houses I've seen I would guess it is less, because they would probably tend to be smaller, but that is pure speculation. Also, of course it is worth investing 20k over 10 years into a 80k house in many circumstances. Why wouldn't it be? Yes, some people won't be able to afford this out of pocket (though I maintain that this group is smaller than you'd think). But again, the government could (and should) support this group, making it financially feasible.

by tfourb 4y ago

waihtis 4y ago

It doesn't matter if the energy efficiency rating is based on local standards when the costs aren't. Again, there is absolutely no sense blowing 20-30k on energy renovating a house that is worth 80k. If you don't think binding 5% of the entire country's budget for 10 years into upgrading old houses is an manic proposition I think we can safely agree there isn't a way for us to see this from the same angle and we can agree to disagree on this topic.

tfourb 4y ago
Spending 5% of the government budget for ten years on measures that reduce energy consumption by 20-30% for a third of the housing stock forever is a bargain. The 20-30k figure was based on my experience with German houses, I have no idea how much it would cost for the typical old finish house to come up to standard. Based on the very few rural finish houses I've seen I would guess it is less, because they would probably tend to be smaller, but that is pure speculation. Also, of course it is worth investing 20k over 10 years into a 80k house in many circumstances. Why wouldn't it be? Yes, some people won't be able to afford this out of pocket (though I maintain that this group is smaller than you'd think). But again, the government could (and should) support this group, making it financially feasible.