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I don't know the situation of South Korea to comment on this topic. But, with the corporate industries talking too much about transparency it seems no one has c

I don't know the situation of South Korea to comment on this topic. But, with the corporate industries talking too much about transparency it seems no one has come to identifying the cause of wage gap. Why not make the salary transparent across the board and the employee performance in public (internal to company) as well? People or Management say it is complicated, but is it really? This company Buffer appeared in HN for their transparency some while ago [https://buffer.com/salary-calculator/ https://buffer.com/salary-calculator/] We can surely determine if the wage gap is because of sexual discrimination or just a little relaxed performance.

punnerud 4y ago
We do this in Norway, everyone’s salary was totally open (the last couple of years people can see if you have looked at their salary, so not totally open). A new government now, that want to make it totally open again. It’s the ‘Norwegian tax administration’ that give out the information. Media always have full access and can write articles based on it for individuals or groups of people, as long as they don’t publish the whole dataset.
- Onewildgamer 4y ago
  Wow, that is impressive. Norway is surely advanced in humanities. So, why not publicise the performance metrics of the employees as well? Not public at least accessible like what you mentioned on salary. I'm not questioning why Norway isn't doing it but in general why not? Such access to performance can also serve as a driver in the employment industry. Along with the engineering blogs, one can display links to the portal with company attested achievements and stats, it will at least reduce false claims in LinkedIn.
  - punnerud 4y ago
    What performance metrics? Never heard about something like that. More often than not, the sum of individual performance is not 2+2=4 but more like 2+2=3 or 1+1+1=4 Combining high performers (2) is often not better (1)
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    Salary is an objective number. Performance is a subjective assessment by someone who may favor or disdain you. "Accomplishments" tends to leave out the effort put in by those around you. I don't think I know of a single manager I've worked with who would have been as honest in performance reviews if they knew their feedback wasn't going to be confidential. All of that is to say I wouldn't put much, if any, stock in such information.
mpweiher 4y ago
> it seems no one has come to identifying the cause of wage gap. That's because there is no discernible wage gap. There is an earnings differential that has been pretty much fully explained. For example here, fairly comprehensively: "both men and women unconsciously make trade-offs that affect how much they earn. Farrell clearly defines the 25 different workplace choices that affect women's and men's incomes -- including putting in more hours at work, taking riskier jobs or more hazardous assignments, being willing to change location, and training for technical jobs that involve less people contact -- and provides readers with specific, research-supported ways for women to earn higher pay." https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/1542751292 https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/154275... But there are many other sources. One example was a study of wages at the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, which has completely codified/rigid pay structure and still managed to "discriminate" against women, pretty much at the same rate as the national "gender pay gap". How? The men did more overtime, more shifts at inconvenient times etc. In fact, given all the evidence, as far as I can tell it is overexplained. Alas, this doesn't fit The Narrative™.
- Onewildgamer 4y ago
  Haha. Well I agree with the reasons for difference in pay gap. My suggestion is why not make those metrics public as well, people can see for themselves if it related to working hours, output, level of risk etc.
  - mpweiher 4y ago
    That information largely is public. But as I wrote, it doesn't fit The Narrative™, so it doesn't get reported.
- belltaco 4y ago
  Is that true in places like South Korea as well or only in the west? Was there a real wage gap in the US, say, a hundred years ago, when women finally got the right to vote?
  - 4y ago

punnerud 4y ago

We do this in Norway, everyone’s salary was totally open (the last couple of years people can see if you have looked at their salary, so not totally open). A new government now, that want to make it totally open again. It’s the ‘Norwegian tax administration’ that give out the information. Media always have full access and can write articles based on it for individuals or groups of people, as long as they don’t publish the whole dataset.

Onewildgamer 4y ago
Wow, that is impressive. Norway is surely advanced in humanities. So, why not publicise the performance metrics of the employees as well? Not public at least accessible like what you mentioned on salary. I'm not questioning why Norway isn't doing it but in general why not? Such access to performance can also serve as a driver in the employment industry. Along with the engineering blogs, one can display links to the portal with company attested achievements and stats, it will at least reduce false claims in LinkedIn.
- punnerud 4y ago
  What performance metrics? Never heard about something like that. More often than not, the sum of individual performance is not 2+2=4 but more like 2+2=3 or 1+1+1=4 Combining high performers (2) is often not better (1)
- zdragnar 4y ago
  Salary is an objective number. Performance is a subjective assessment by someone who may favor or disdain you. "Accomplishments" tends to leave out the effort put in by those around you. I don't think I know of a single manager I've worked with who would have been as honest in performance reviews if they knew their feedback wasn't going to be confidential. All of that is to say I wouldn't put much, if any, stock in such information.

mpweiher 4y ago

> it seems no one has come to identifying the cause of wage gap. That's because there is no discernible wage gap. There is an earnings differential that has been pretty much fully explained. For example here, fairly comprehensively: "both men and women unconsciously make trade-offs that affect how much they earn. Farrell clearly defines the 25 different workplace choices that affect women's and men's incomes -- including putting in more hours at work, taking riskier jobs or more hazardous assignments, being willing to change location, and training for technical jobs that involve less people contact -- and provides readers with specific, research-supported ways for women to earn higher pay." https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/1542751292 https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/154275... But there are many other sources. One example was a study of wages at the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, which has completely codified/rigid pay structure and still managed to "discriminate" against women, pretty much at the same rate as the national "gender pay gap". How? The men did more overtime, more shifts at inconvenient times etc. In fact, given all the evidence, as far as I can tell it is overexplained. Alas, this doesn't fit The Narrative™.

Onewildgamer 4y ago
Haha. Well I agree with the reasons for difference in pay gap. My suggestion is why not make those metrics public as well, people can see for themselves if it related to working hours, output, level of risk etc.
- mpweiher 4y ago
  That information largely is public. But as I wrote, it doesn't fit The Narrative™, so it doesn't get reported.
belltaco 4y ago
Is that true in places like South Korea as well or only in the west? Was there a real wage gap in the US, say, a hundred years ago, when women finally got the right to vote?
- 4y ago