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It is not at all funny when apparently Germany had to reopen coal plants. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-21/germany-bolsters-coal-fired-power-

It is not at all funny when apparently Germany had to reopen coal plants. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-21/germany-bolsters-coal-fired-power-to-meet-winter-power-demand https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-21/germany-b... "Utility Steag GmbH will add four hard-coal plants with a capacity of 2.5 gigawatts to the market within the next few weeks, while Uniper SE will prolong operations at its 345-megawatt Scholven-C hard-coal-fired power plant, the companies said on Friday. " https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1124448463/germany-coal-energy-crisis https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1124448463/germany-coal-energ... https://www.ft.com/content/9d3c8af8-ae00-4dc5-9e85-579681450c9c https://www.ft.com/content/9d3c8af8-ae00-4dc5-9e85-579681450... "Germany turns to coal for a third of its electricity"

dwan128 4y ago
This seems really specific information that’s not really relevant to that parent comment. How did you learn about this and why do you care?
- lenkite 4y ago
  "How did you learn about this and why do you care?" Because my german colleagues were ranting about this whenever there was a break/issue in "Teams meetings". (which happens often) Why do I care ? Because people are apparently not looking at reality when they make grandiose claims about renewables and electricity generation in Europe. Replace by renewables by all means - but at-least be honest about the data.
  - revertmean 4y ago
    So Germany, a country that is well behind other European countries on renewables, had an over-dependence on Russian gas and was forced to reopen some coal plants when the price spiked. And you came to the conclusion that this was somehow a fault with renewables? How does that make sense to you?
    - lenkite 4y ago
      Why did you think its Germany alone ? It's Austria, France and the Netherlands as well. France and Austria both re-opened coal power plants. Even the Netherlands removed their cap on coal power. How does that make sense to you ?
      - revertmean 4y ago
        What, France? The poster child for the nuclear fans had to re-open coal plants? Well, I hadn't heard that. That's interesting. It makes sense to me because they were all clearly dependent on Russian gas, which is what caused the price spike in electricity across Europe. It still doesn't make sense to me that you think it's something to do with renewables.
        looping__lui 4y ago
        … they probably had to ramp up to help out their German neighbors when their electricity grid was close to collapose because of a non-sustainable idealogically driven strategy authored by the Green part being completely oblivious of today’s reality.
        haizhung 4y ago
        No, they had to reopen them because their nuclear plants stopped working. Too hot, not enough water in the rivers due to climate change to cool down the nuclear plants - so they shut them off, and France was buying renewable energy from Germany. So you got your facts exactly the wrong way. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/even-crisis-germany-extends-power-exports-neighbours-2023-01-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/even-crisis-germany-... Turns out, nuclear is not the end all, be all solution. Who knew? I don’t know why HN has such a rage boner for Germany’s energy transition, it doesn’t seem that triggered by any other country.
        looping__lui 4y ago
        Maybe because it’s not a transition but an ideology driven f** up? I live near the coal plants they are firing up again. I’m all pro PV (have one), I heat my house on geothermal, I spent a ton on energy efficiency for my house. But this entire “renewable transition”, “getting out of nuclear” and coming up with other random ideas in a industry focused economy is just bogus in execution.
- stainablesteel 4y ago
  its 100% relevant, the belief in return from renewables (which they don't actually offer much) comes at the expense of making the rest of the world poorer, and making europe more vulnerable to energy shocks putin took advantage of this, europe put their neck in the guillotine for him
Hanschri 4y ago
You left out the specific reason as to why they re-opened coal plants at the end of 2022: "Germany is deploying about 3 gigawatts of coal-fired generation to ensure there are enough electricity supplies to make it through the winter amid curtailed natural gas supplies from Russia." This was done out of necessity to ensure Germany did not run out of natural gas during the winter months as the gas imports from Russia have more or less dried up. I am not German nor am I up to date on their measures to transitioning their grid to renewable energy, but if anything this war is accelerating the transition for many countries in Europe. Even if this means they have to temporarily re-open fossile fuel power plants. This could possibly have been avoided had the German government not shut its nuclear power plants down in the previous years, but that's another discussion.
- lenkite 4y ago
  Its already DST in Germany and these coal plants are still open. Let's actually wait and see if they are truly shut down this year. My guess is no - and my german colleagues believe they will still be open for the next several years - providing a third to half of Germany's electricity. (But keep it hush-hush and lets not talk about this dirty fact on HN - it looks bad you know ?)
  - looping__lui 4y ago
    They will be required to cover the additional load from the nuclear plants we will shut down this year. Germany will produce more carbon emissions than probably almost ever…
- lordofgibbons 4y ago
  You left out the reason why Germany was so dependent on Russian gas for energy: their out of touch with reality, (the conspiratorial amongst us might say fossil fuel company funded) plans to completely rely on fossil fuels until a transition to renewables can be completed in multiple decades. All of this while they already have a viable green solution: Nuclear, which they planned on completely shutting down by 2022.

dwan128 4y ago

This seems really specific information that’s not really relevant to that parent comment. How did you learn about this and why do you care?

lenkite 4y ago
"How did you learn about this and why do you care?" Because my german colleagues were ranting about this whenever there was a break/issue in "Teams meetings". (which happens often) Why do I care ? Because people are apparently not looking at reality when they make grandiose claims about renewables and electricity generation in Europe. Replace by renewables by all means - but at-least be honest about the data.
- revertmean 4y ago
  So Germany, a country that is well behind other European countries on renewables, had an over-dependence on Russian gas and was forced to reopen some coal plants when the price spiked. And you came to the conclusion that this was somehow a fault with renewables? How does that make sense to you?
  - lenkite 4y ago
    Why did you think its Germany alone ? It's Austria, France and the Netherlands as well. France and Austria both re-opened coal power plants. Even the Netherlands removed their cap on coal power. How does that make sense to you ?
    - revertmean 4y ago
      What, France? The poster child for the nuclear fans had to re-open coal plants? Well, I hadn't heard that. That's interesting. It makes sense to me because they were all clearly dependent on Russian gas, which is what caused the price spike in electricity across Europe. It still doesn't make sense to me that you think it's something to do with renewables.
      - looping__lui 4y ago
        … they probably had to ramp up to help out their German neighbors when their electricity grid was close to collapose because of a non-sustainable idealogically driven strategy authored by the Green part being completely oblivious of today’s reality.
        haizhung 4y ago
        No, they had to reopen them because their nuclear plants stopped working. Too hot, not enough water in the rivers due to climate change to cool down the nuclear plants - so they shut them off, and France was buying renewable energy from Germany. So you got your facts exactly the wrong way. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/even-crisis-germany-extends-power-exports-neighbours-2023-01-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/even-crisis-germany-... Turns out, nuclear is not the end all, be all solution. Who knew? I don’t know why HN has such a rage boner for Germany’s energy transition, it doesn’t seem that triggered by any other country.
        looping__lui 4y ago
        Maybe because it’s not a transition but an ideology driven f** up? I live near the coal plants they are firing up again. I’m all pro PV (have one), I heat my house on geothermal, I spent a ton on energy efficiency for my house. But this entire “renewable transition”, “getting out of nuclear” and coming up with other random ideas in a industry focused economy is just bogus in execution.
stainablesteel 4y ago
its 100% relevant, the belief in return from renewables (which they don't actually offer much) comes at the expense of making the rest of the world poorer, and making europe more vulnerable to energy shocks putin took advantage of this, europe put their neck in the guillotine for him

Hanschri 4y ago

You left out the specific reason as to why they re-opened coal plants at the end of 2022: "Germany is deploying about 3 gigawatts of coal-fired generation to ensure there are enough electricity supplies to make it through the winter amid curtailed natural gas supplies from Russia." This was done out of necessity to ensure Germany did not run out of natural gas during the winter months as the gas imports from Russia have more or less dried up. I am not German nor am I up to date on their measures to transitioning their grid to renewable energy, but if anything this war is accelerating the transition for many countries in Europe. Even if this means they have to temporarily re-open fossile fuel power plants. This could possibly have been avoided had the German government not shut its nuclear power plants down in the previous years, but that's another discussion.

lenkite 4y ago
Its already DST in Germany and these coal plants are still open. Let's actually wait and see if they are truly shut down this year. My guess is no - and my german colleagues believe they will still be open for the next several years - providing a third to half of Germany's electricity. (But keep it hush-hush and lets not talk about this dirty fact on HN - it looks bad you know ?)
- looping__lui 4y ago
  They will be required to cover the additional load from the nuclear plants we will shut down this year. Germany will produce more carbon emissions than probably almost ever…
lordofgibbons 4y ago
You left out the reason why Germany was so dependent on Russian gas for energy: their out of touch with reality, (the conspiratorial amongst us might say fossil fuel company funded) plans to completely rely on fossil fuels until a transition to renewables can be completed in multiple decades. All of this while they already have a viable green solution: Nuclear, which they planned on completely shutting down by 2022.