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I get a lot job offers in my LinkedIn inbox and newsletters from places like glass door as I like to keep my eye on the market. One thing I’ve been seeing a lot

I get a lot job offers in my LinkedIn inbox and newsletters from places like glass door as I like to keep my eye on the market. One thing I’ve been seeing a lot recently is salaries for dev roles steadily dropping in the UK. The concerning thing, in my opinion, is that the poster linked by OP seems disillusioned as to the standard of living in the UK. They specifically mention being paid £55k as being equivalent to $100k in the US. It isn’t. £55k in London is about enough to rent a place and live ok’ish on your own, and relatively comfortably if you have a partner whom is also earning a salary in a similar bracket. Rent on a 1 bedroom flat in zone 5 is costing £1,500 as a minimum. You then have council tax which is about £200 a month (soon to be increased). If you travel to the city to go to the office that is gonna cost you at least £50 a week, more if you need to go everyday. Your utilities will cost you at least £100 a month and food, without takeaways is also going to cost you about £50 a week. All the costs above are lowballing intentionally and do not factor in things like the inevitable lunch coffee and after work drinks, albeit non alcoholic. The reality is that the UK is becoming a much less livable place and that the cost of living/energy/whatever comes next is always passed down to the average person. I will not be surprised to see an exodus of skilled workers over the next decade. I personally have set a 5 year target for leaving the country personally, which is sad. My partner has noticed the change herself and is equally as sad that the reality is she will need to leave (after working to acquire citizenship) in order to have a proper chance at buying a home and living a happy life.

alibarber 4y ago
I'd be reasonably certain that $100k in the Bay Area would leave you with pretty much the same lifestyle you describe here in London. There is quite a gap between London and the UK as a whole, for better and for worse.
- whatyesaid 4y ago
  Are they paying 100k in the Bay Area or more upwards of 200k?
  - jwestbury 4y ago
    In tech (which is what is relevant to this post), pay is much higher in US tech hubs than it is in London. I had to move from tech to finance (still in a tech role) in order to get anywhere near my Seattle-based tech salary when I moved to London.
dubcanada 4y ago
What part of > £55k as being equivalent to $100k in the US Is not? I don't see any argument for that not being correct. Everything you said about costs, sounds that exact same as $100k in the US. Unless you live in North Dakota, chances are you are paying pretty close to the same percentages for rent/foot in a larger city such as San Fran or Chicago. Not exactly sure what zone 5 is, but a rough search gave me $2500 for rent in Chicago, which is about double £1,500 (roughly), council tax probably doesn't exist, but travel in Chicago is certainly going to be WAY more than "£50 a week". And GOOD luck finding utilities for "at least £100", internet alone is probably $50 US, cell phone another $40 US, power, heat, hot water, depending on apartment is probably another $100 US. Food for "£50 a week" is also a dream I would expect food to be closer to $200 USD a week. Unless you're living on ramen. Everything I see adds up to that being about correct.
- incone123 4y ago
  Zone 5: London's public transport has a fare system based on concentric circles. Zone 1 is the centre. Zone 5 housing used to be affordable on average Joe wages.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- tyingq 4y ago
  UK payroll taxes are also probably a larger percentage.
  - philjohn 4y ago
    But that covers your healthcare. No copays, deductibles, flat rate for all prescriptions of £9.50 per item (or £10.40 a month for 10 months for a prepayment certificate that covers as many items as needed). Insurance is also less, both contents and car insurance. Utilities a lot lower (fast internet for £30 a month, sim only contract with 50GB of 5G data for £15 a month). There is this strange idea that the UK is super expensive, and whilst not cheap, a lot of things are decidedly cheaper in the UK than they are in the US. Also student loans - universities are capped at £9250 per year, so you've not got hundreds of thousands in student loan debt to pay off either.
vidarh 4y ago
My council tax in zone five for a mid range priced terraced 3 bedroom house is below £200 a month before the single person deduction (25%). Literally the first search for a 1 bed property to rent in zone 5 (Croydon, specifically), showed up several around 1100/month. The furnished ones in the more expensive new-builds certainly are around the 1500/month range. Those are in band A, while my house is in band D, so even lower council tax, before taking into account the single person deduction. E.g. a single person in a band A property in Croydon will pay around 1200/year in council tax. Varies by borough, of course.
- iamacyborg 4y ago
  Yeah but then you live in Croydon.
  - xenocratus 4y ago
    I pay £1550pcm in a fairly new build in Stratford/Olympic Park, ~60sqm. Used to pay the same (until January) for ~55sqm in Canada Water, but for an older build. These are 1 bed flats I'm talking about. I do have to say, though, the process of finding them was quite stressful.
  - vidarh 4y ago
    I've lived in Croydon for 20 years, after living multiple other places in London. While it has some real shitholes, it also has plenty of great places. Most of Croydons reputation is down to places most people who live in Croydon never see. The 1100/month flats I saw were in calm, green, solidly middle class areas with walking distance to several large parks, shops, and great transport links.
    - airpoint 4y ago
      Most of Croydons reputation is down to crime rate mate. Overall third highest in London and especially significant and growing in the violence against the person category.
      - 4y ago
agilob 4y ago
> They specifically mention being paid £55k as being equivalent to $100k in the US. It isn’t. I think you're missing some benefits. I don't know anything specific about this job offer and what would be on the paper offer, but UK public sector offers quite insane benefits compared to private sector, where salary might be like 50-60% of total compensation. Some I'm failiar with: free access to public nurseries (normal price was around £1200/monthy), 50% of costs for private high school, high retirement employer contributions, refunds for all public transport tickets used to get to work, access to gym, swimming pool, sauna, massage and therapies with max. 1 entry per day, free car parking during working days and weekends (otherwise £3-5 per hour), up to £100 per month for books - and this doesn't include annual training budget. While the cash is quite low and won't get you far with luxury holidays abroad, it offers very high living standard in the UK.
- dreilide 4y ago
  Agreed - my ex has spent her whole career in the public sector and the benefits are indeed insane. IIRC the pension was especially lucrative (from my POV), it was something like min ~20% employer contribution but I could be remembering incorrectly. I wonder why they don't advertise all the benefits more explicitly in public sector job listings.
  - agilob 4y ago
    and there she goes to retire safely at 60
- sandworm101 4y ago
  If you are the sort of person positioned to take advantage of those benefits, many of which are aimed at people with young families: some kids, but not so many that you want a larger living area. This serves to narrow the field of prospective applicants to those of a paticular social and cultural class. A single person whith hobbies outside the narrow field of acceptability will not apply. Anyone who would rather go on a backpacking trips than endulge in spa days would rather have the money than the spa benefit. In the end, such specific benifit packages tend to promote a very paticular london lifestyle.
dukeyukey 4y ago
I'm in London, and don't recognise most of this. Like, I live in Zone 2 with a rent of £1600/month, including heating. My previous place (only a few months ago) was £1450, also in Zone 2. My company is revving up hiring, and we've definitely not seen salaries decrease. If anything, we're prepared to pay more to basically anyone who isn't a new grad.
- a_humean 4y ago
  So I live in zone 3 in south west london and my rent is 1500pcm. I signed that rental contract in 2021, but since then average rents in my area have gone up 25% (my salary has gone up by ~10% in that time). My contract is coming up for renewal, and I'm bracing myself for 1800-1900 terms from my landlord. This has happened everywhere in London - 15% increases in the past year alone. Seriously questioning whether to stay in London itself, but even outside of London rents have gone up crazy amounts given the average salaries of those areas. This country is starting to become unaffordable despite the fact that I'm technically >97th income percentile.
lnsru 4y ago
I am just curious where would you go? In my eyes today’s Germany is also bad choice for working and living comfy lifestyle. It was nice low wage country with dirt cheap groceries and not too expensive housing. Now it is still low wage country with high cost of living.
jstx1 4y ago
> I will not be surprised to see an exodus of skilled workers over the next decade. I personally have set a 5 year target for leaving the country personally, which is sad. What better options do you have realistically?
sumedh 4y ago
> I will not be surprised to see an exodus of skilled workers over the next decade. Two people from the UK joined my team in Australia who work in tech in the last two months. They both had the same complaint, life is not good in UK.
- dukeyukey 4y ago
  Keep in mind those are people who purposefully moved to Australia. I know plenty of Aussies here in London who left Australia, usually due to poor job opportunities or culture.
meghan_rain 4y ago
Where are you going to leave to?
- makingstuffs 4y ago
  My preference is the Netherlands but it is obviously a joint decision which needs to be made by both myself and my partner. We are both working in tech so finding a job shouldn’t be an issue. She is an EU national by birth so automatically has the right to work and live there. I would need to jump through hoops as a result of the big B :/
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

alibarber 4y ago

I'd be reasonably certain that $100k in the Bay Area would leave you with pretty much the same lifestyle you describe here in London. There is quite a gap between London and the UK as a whole, for better and for worse.

whatyesaid 4y ago
Are they paying 100k in the Bay Area or more upwards of 200k?
- jwestbury 4y ago
  In tech (which is what is relevant to this post), pay is much higher in US tech hubs than it is in London. I had to move from tech to finance (still in a tech role) in order to get anywhere near my Seattle-based tech salary when I moved to London.

dubcanada 4y ago

What part of > £55k as being equivalent to $100k in the US Is not? I don't see any argument for that not being correct. Everything you said about costs, sounds that exact same as $100k in the US. Unless you live in North Dakota, chances are you are paying pretty close to the same percentages for rent/foot in a larger city such as San Fran or Chicago. Not exactly sure what zone 5 is, but a rough search gave me $2500 for rent in Chicago, which is about double £1,500 (roughly), council tax probably doesn't exist, but travel in Chicago is certainly going to be WAY more than "£50 a week". And GOOD luck finding utilities for "at least £100", internet alone is probably $50 US, cell phone another $40 US, power, heat, hot water, depending on apartment is probably another $100 US. Food for "£50 a week" is also a dream I would expect food to be closer to $200 USD a week. Unless you're living on ramen. Everything I see adds up to that being about correct.

incone123 4y ago
Zone 5: London's public transport has a fare system based on concentric circles. Zone 1 is the centre. Zone 5 housing used to be affordable on average Joe wages.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
tyingq 4y ago
UK payroll taxes are also probably a larger percentage.
- philjohn 4y ago
  But that covers your healthcare. No copays, deductibles, flat rate for all prescriptions of £9.50 per item (or £10.40 a month for 10 months for a prepayment certificate that covers as many items as needed). Insurance is also less, both contents and car insurance. Utilities a lot lower (fast internet for £30 a month, sim only contract with 50GB of 5G data for £15 a month). There is this strange idea that the UK is super expensive, and whilst not cheap, a lot of things are decidedly cheaper in the UK than they are in the US. Also student loans - universities are capped at £9250 per year, so you've not got hundreds of thousands in student loan debt to pay off either.

vidarh 4y ago

My council tax in zone five for a mid range priced terraced 3 bedroom house is below £200 a month before the single person deduction (25%). Literally the first search for a 1 bed property to rent in zone 5 (Croydon, specifically), showed up several around 1100/month. The furnished ones in the more expensive new-builds certainly are around the 1500/month range. Those are in band A, while my house is in band D, so even lower council tax, before taking into account the single person deduction. E.g. a single person in a band A property in Croydon will pay around 1200/year in council tax. Varies by borough, of course.

iamacyborg 4y ago
Yeah but then you live in Croydon.
- xenocratus 4y ago
  I pay £1550pcm in a fairly new build in Stratford/Olympic Park, ~60sqm. Used to pay the same (until January) for ~55sqm in Canada Water, but for an older build. These are 1 bed flats I'm talking about. I do have to say, though, the process of finding them was quite stressful.
- vidarh 4y ago
  I've lived in Croydon for 20 years, after living multiple other places in London. While it has some real shitholes, it also has plenty of great places. Most of Croydons reputation is down to places most people who live in Croydon never see. The 1100/month flats I saw were in calm, green, solidly middle class areas with walking distance to several large parks, shops, and great transport links.
  - airpoint 4y ago
    Most of Croydons reputation is down to crime rate mate. Overall third highest in London and especially significant and growing in the violence against the person category.
    - 4y ago

agilob 4y ago

> They specifically mention being paid £55k as being equivalent to $100k in the US. It isn’t. I think you're missing some benefits. I don't know anything specific about this job offer and what would be on the paper offer, but UK public sector offers quite insane benefits compared to private sector, where salary might be like 50-60% of total compensation. Some I'm failiar with: free access to public nurseries (normal price was around £1200/monthy), 50% of costs for private high school, high retirement employer contributions, refunds for all public transport tickets used to get to work, access to gym, swimming pool, sauna, massage and therapies with max. 1 entry per day, free car parking during working days and weekends (otherwise £3-5 per hour), up to £100 per month for books - and this doesn't include annual training budget. While the cash is quite low and won't get you far with luxury holidays abroad, it offers very high living standard in the UK.

dreilide 4y ago
Agreed - my ex has spent her whole career in the public sector and the benefits are indeed insane. IIRC the pension was especially lucrative (from my POV), it was something like min ~20% employer contribution but I could be remembering incorrectly. I wonder why they don't advertise all the benefits more explicitly in public sector job listings.
- agilob 4y ago
  and there she goes to retire safely at 60
sandworm101 4y ago
If you are the sort of person positioned to take advantage of those benefits, many of which are aimed at people with young families: some kids, but not so many that you want a larger living area. This serves to narrow the field of prospective applicants to those of a paticular social and cultural class. A single person whith hobbies outside the narrow field of acceptability will not apply. Anyone who would rather go on a backpacking trips than endulge in spa days would rather have the money than the spa benefit. In the end, such specific benifit packages tend to promote a very paticular london lifestyle.

dukeyukey 4y ago

I'm in London, and don't recognise most of this. Like, I live in Zone 2 with a rent of £1600/month, including heating. My previous place (only a few months ago) was £1450, also in Zone 2. My company is revving up hiring, and we've definitely not seen salaries decrease. If anything, we're prepared to pay more to basically anyone who isn't a new grad.

a_humean 4y ago
So I live in zone 3 in south west london and my rent is 1500pcm. I signed that rental contract in 2021, but since then average rents in my area have gone up 25% (my salary has gone up by ~10% in that time). My contract is coming up for renewal, and I'm bracing myself for 1800-1900 terms from my landlord. This has happened everywhere in London - 15% increases in the past year alone. Seriously questioning whether to stay in London itself, but even outside of London rents have gone up crazy amounts given the average salaries of those areas. This country is starting to become unaffordable despite the fact that I'm technically >97th income percentile.

lnsru 4y ago

I am just curious where would you go? In my eyes today’s Germany is also bad choice for working and living comfy lifestyle. It was nice low wage country with dirt cheap groceries and not too expensive housing. Now it is still low wage country with high cost of living.

jstx1 4y ago

> I will not be surprised to see an exodus of skilled workers over the next decade. I personally have set a 5 year target for leaving the country personally, which is sad. What better options do you have realistically?

sumedh 4y ago

> I will not be surprised to see an exodus of skilled workers over the next decade. Two people from the UK joined my team in Australia who work in tech in the last two months. They both had the same complaint, life is not good in UK.

dukeyukey 4y ago
Keep in mind those are people who purposefully moved to Australia. I know plenty of Aussies here in London who left Australia, usually due to poor job opportunities or culture.

meghan_rain 4y ago

Where are you going to leave to?

makingstuffs 4y ago
My preference is the Netherlands but it is obviously a joint decision which needs to be made by both myself and my partner. We are both working in tech so finding a job shouldn’t be an issue. She is an EU national by birth so automatically has the right to work and live there. I would need to jump through hoops as a result of the big B :/

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]