4 ms·

I think the job title is misleading, from the job listing: > We are looking for an experienced Head of Cyber Security to lead a team of two cyber analysts > W

I think the job title is misleading, from the job listing: > We are looking for an experienced Head of Cyber Security to lead a team of two cyber analysts > We are a team of around 40, responsible for the Treasury’s technology, security and knowledge and information management services. So it's not _the_ Head - but _a_ head, and that 'head' has a relatively minor / junior manager role.

cs02rm0 4y ago
Sounds to me like it is _the_ Head of Cyber Security, but there are other technology roles outside of Cyber Security in the "team".
jojobas 4y ago
If you entire IT team is 40, it's plausible to assume that the entire security team is these 2 analysts and their sought-after boss. Even if it's "a" head, why would anyone qualified for leading an infosec team be interested?
- SilverBirch 4y ago
  For the same reason that anyone works in the civil service. It's a very restrained pace of life, you literally have to count your hours and take time off to ensure you don't work more than 37.5 hours a week, there's flexibility to work from home and your working hours, the pension and the benefits are fantastic. If you live to work then this job isn't for you, but it's quite a nice job if you're not that invested in it.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    I have seen 'chill' roles with more pay in the private sector. Thats befire we bring up that, move outside london and your costs go down 30%
  - jojobas 4y ago
    If you're paid less, it generally means you're less useful to the society. They value you protecting the UK treasury less than they value you making silly landing pages. You can chill making landing pages just as well, just make them part-time.
    - SilverBirch 4y ago
      The idea that your pay reflects your use to society is pretty eccentric.
      - jojobas 4y ago
        Welcome to the free market and economic utility.
        SilverBirch 4y ago
        It might represent your value in the free market in terms of economic utility, but that doesn't reflect your value to society. There are things in this world outside of pure economic measurement.
        jojobas 4y ago
        There sure are such things, however labour for hire is not one of them.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    > If you live to work then this job isn't for you, but it's quite a nice job if you're not that invested in it. Seems like that would attract bullshitters who deliver the minimum they can get away with, and given it's the government and there will be no (skilled) oversight, they will get away with it and the mediocrity feedback loop continues.
    - SilverBirch 4y ago
      Actually it tends to be the opposite, it ends up filled with highly qualified experts in their fields who are happier with a good work-life balance. Because it's government everything moves very slowly and there is very limited scope for advancement (the government doesn't grow like a company, and there's no outside competition so you can't jump to new jobs as much) so it's not a good place for bullshitters to thrive because you're going to be there a long time and if you get found out as a bullshitter no one will tkae you seriously. You can't just bullshit through a few years and then move to a different department or get a promotion, everything moves so slowly that if you start screwin things up people will actually notice (they won't fire you though).
      - Nextgrid 4y ago
        I'm not sure this would apply to the near-poverty-level salary talked about here? It's one thing to give up the top-level salary for a smaller-but-still-comfortable one, but the one we're talking here is absolutely terrible (lookup taxes and the cost of living and housing especially in London)? I'd expect only those who really have nowhere else to go to settle for this, which again implies lack of skill. > if you get found out as a bullshitter no one will tkae you seriously Unless everyone is a similar bullshitter, or you play the (office?) politics game properly to compensate for your lack of skill. If bullshitters were universally discredited everywhere like you say, politics as a job would disappear overnight.
vasco 4y ago
As I understand it, Head is what you call someone that's leading a group of people and they don't have the on-paper experience to do it, or you don't want to give them the title for any other reason. Also why startups tend to have more "heads" of things and at some point shift to having VPs
- mkl95 4y ago
  This aligns with my experience. I used to work at a department that had a "Head". She never talked to anybody or delivered any tangible work. I still wonder what her real job was.

cs02rm0 4y ago

Sounds to me like it is _the_ Head of Cyber Security, but there are other technology roles outside of Cyber Security in the "team".

jojobas 4y ago

If you entire IT team is 40, it's plausible to assume that the entire security team is these 2 analysts and their sought-after boss. Even if it's "a" head, why would anyone qualified for leading an infosec team be interested?

SilverBirch 4y ago
For the same reason that anyone works in the civil service. It's a very restrained pace of life, you literally have to count your hours and take time off to ensure you don't work more than 37.5 hours a week, there's flexibility to work from home and your working hours, the pension and the benefits are fantastic. If you live to work then this job isn't for you, but it's quite a nice job if you're not that invested in it.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  I have seen 'chill' roles with more pay in the private sector. Thats befire we bring up that, move outside london and your costs go down 30%
- jojobas 4y ago
  If you're paid less, it generally means you're less useful to the society. They value you protecting the UK treasury less than they value you making silly landing pages. You can chill making landing pages just as well, just make them part-time.
  - SilverBirch 4y ago
    The idea that your pay reflects your use to society is pretty eccentric.
    - jojobas 4y ago
      Welcome to the free market and economic utility.
      - SilverBirch 4y ago
        It might represent your value in the free market in terms of economic utility, but that doesn't reflect your value to society. There are things in this world outside of pure economic measurement.
        jojobas 4y ago
        There sure are such things, however labour for hire is not one of them.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  > If you live to work then this job isn't for you, but it's quite a nice job if you're not that invested in it. Seems like that would attract bullshitters who deliver the minimum they can get away with, and given it's the government and there will be no (skilled) oversight, they will get away with it and the mediocrity feedback loop continues.
  - SilverBirch 4y ago
    Actually it tends to be the opposite, it ends up filled with highly qualified experts in their fields who are happier with a good work-life balance. Because it's government everything moves very slowly and there is very limited scope for advancement (the government doesn't grow like a company, and there's no outside competition so you can't jump to new jobs as much) so it's not a good place for bullshitters to thrive because you're going to be there a long time and if you get found out as a bullshitter no one will tkae you seriously. You can't just bullshit through a few years and then move to a different department or get a promotion, everything moves so slowly that if you start screwin things up people will actually notice (they won't fire you though).
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      I'm not sure this would apply to the near-poverty-level salary talked about here? It's one thing to give up the top-level salary for a smaller-but-still-comfortable one, but the one we're talking here is absolutely terrible (lookup taxes and the cost of living and housing especially in London)? I'd expect only those who really have nowhere else to go to settle for this, which again implies lack of skill. > if you get found out as a bullshitter no one will tkae you seriously Unless everyone is a similar bullshitter, or you play the (office?) politics game properly to compensate for your lack of skill. If bullshitters were universally discredited everywhere like you say, politics as a job would disappear overnight.

vasco 4y ago

As I understand it, Head is what you call someone that's leading a group of people and they don't have the on-paper experience to do it, or you don't want to give them the title for any other reason. Also why startups tend to have more "heads" of things and at some point shift to having VPs

mkl95 4y ago
This aligns with my experience. I used to work at a department that had a "Head". She never talked to anybody or delivered any tangible work. I still wonder what her real job was.