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This is just the just world fallacy in a post. If you lived in Germany you would understand that statements like this that you wrote: > doesn't make you a spe

This is just the just world fallacy in a post. If you lived in Germany you would understand that statements like this that you wrote: > doesn't make you a special snowflake worthy of the German society to turn itself upside down for you and roll the red carpet and make life super easy for you are utterly, utterly ridiculous. There is absolutely no risk whatsoever of Germany "rolling the red carpet" for immigrants. It's a fairly hostile place to be if you're not German even if you're white. It can also be hostile even if you're German but not white. Among "expat" destinations (so plausible expat destinations, so excluding, e.g. DRC), it regularly tops the rankings as the worst place to live (harder to live in than Japan or China, and no disrespect to those two countries, but they are traditionally considered benchmark definitions of exclusive countries). > Best learn it if you move there out of respect for the host country and to integrate and become part of society Let me tell you as someone who lives in Germany right now: the vast majority of 1M Syrian refugees will never, ever, ever integrate into German society. I had no opinion on this before I moved here, now it's obvious. Your idea that integration is purely a one way street is nonsense and only leads to broken societies. Even if you change your name to Winfried and got C2 German, you'll still never be accepted here. Maybe your children will be, but maybe not if they're not white. But the fact is that if countries want immigrants to pay for their boomers' pensions, they need to actually be a generally more welcoming and friendly society. "Fuck you, learn German, and go and live in Chemnitz" don't really pass muster these days. I mean for example this is nonsense: > make you a special snowflake worthy of the German society to turn itself upside down for you and roll the red carpet As if Germany is doing everyone a favour by letting people move there. If there was no demographic crisis then immigration would be practically impossible. I am doing Germany a favour by moving here at least as much as they are doing me a favour by letting me. > there not because you've got some super rare skills nobody there had I'm an academic in a fairly obscure branch of physics so in this case I can categorically say that I do have those rare skills. Everything you said about the country is wrong. Their advice: "don't move here unless you speak German" is absolutely on point, and what I myself tell people. Living in Germany mostly makes no sense if you're not German or not a refugee.

G3rn0ti 4y ago
> the vast majority of 1M Syrian refugees will never, ever, ever integrate into German society. I had no opinion on this before I moved here, now it's obvious. The parents maybe won’t. But their kids. Watch out in the real world or on TV for the children of Syrian refugees that came here in 2016. In the mean time many of those graduated from German schools now and speak German very well (schools invested quite a bit in making sure of that) and learn a profession or even enroll in a University program. While Germany is certainly not a classic immigration country like the US is, as a German I really got the impression that we became much more open minded. Personally, at my work place we started out as a prototypical mid-range company financed by Bavarian entrepreneurs and were pretty much speaking German only. Nowadays (10 years later) we‘ve got many Indian, Turkish and Eastern European colleagues and speak almost only English in meetings. Even our CEO is non-German now. I don’t think that would have worked 10 years ago nut younger co-workers nowadays tend to be much more proficient in speaking English. Of course, living in Munich and Berlin won’t give you quite the same experience like living in Rostock-Lichtenhagen… but parent mentioned she or he plans on founding a start-up. Office space is less expensive in smaller cities like Rostock (or Wismar or you name your favorite less world famous German city), too, and with remote work it is much easier these days to setup an international team in a German company located even in more obscure places. And it gives neighborhoods a chance to develop and rise from their obscurity. Anybody reading this from the city of Neubrandenburg? ;) (I just learned about its existence a couple of years ago as a German native.)
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
> It's a fairly hostile place to be if you're not German even if you're white. It can also be hostile even if you're German but not white. BS. If Germany were that hostile it wouldn't attract the biggest migration waves from non-white African and Middle Eastern countries in all of Europe. And now home to over one million Ukrainians. >Let me tell you as someone who lives in Germany right now: the vast majority of 1M Syrian refugees will never, ever, ever integrate into German society. Again, BS. Most Syrians I met spoke much better German than techie expats who were entitled enough to think that learning German is something beneath them, only mandatory for the lower classes of immigrants doing blue collar work, while they should be somehow exempt because they're special snowflakes who push code to git in English at work so the whole society should switch to English for their ~2% demographic of SW devs to accommodate their laziness of not bothering to integrate and learn the local language of their host country they choose to move into. >Even if you change your name to Winfried and got C2 German, you'll still never be accepted here. Again, more biased BS. I did my best to learn German and mostly hanged out, dated and socialized in German circles instead of English speaking expat circles so I could integrate better, and was always accepted and never discriminated by the Germans because I was a foreigner. I even became friends with people working at the German Government in Berlin or with kids of upper class Bavarians who owned vacation homes in Sylt or Austria. Of course you will find bigoted racists everywhere, but I found the Germans to be very friendly and inclusive if you show willingness to integrate. How far do you think you'd go without English fluency as an immigrant in US or UK? >As if Germany is doing everyone a favour by letting people move there. If there was no demographic crisis then immigration would be practically impossible. I am doing Germany a favour by moving here at least as much as they are doing me a favour by letting me. Germany is a democratic country responsible to provide to the German citizens with voting rights. It's not a country founded by immigrants, like the US, who focuses on pandering to non-German immigrants. If Germany has decided it wants to commit demographic suicide then so be it, it's well within their rights to do so, what gives us foreigners the right to complain about it when we voluntarily chose to come here? Their country, their rules. No like? Vote with your feet and choose another country. Expats make the mistake of expecting Germany to be like Europe's USA. Let's be real here, you didn't benevolently move to Germany to save their demographics like some superhero, but you did it because you found a good economic opportunity in doing so for yourself. Germany didn't kidnap you and bring you here against your will to save their economy, you voluntarily decide to come because it benefited you. Then it's our responsibility as guest to integrate in their society, and not vice versa. Again, how far do you think you'd go without English fluency as an immigrant in US or UK? >I'm an academic in a fairly obscure branch of physics so in this case I can categorically say that I do have those rare skills. Living in Germany mostly makes no sense if you're not German or not a refugee. Then why are you staying in a country you feel doesn't like you? If you're such a special immigrant, why aren't you voting with your feet and moving to a country that is more accommodating to your kind? Question: if you'd leave, would the German GDP or company you work for collapse in your absence? If not, maybe you're not as special as you think and the country is doing fine without you as well.

G3rn0ti 4y ago

> the vast majority of 1M Syrian refugees will never, ever, ever integrate into German society. I had no opinion on this before I moved here, now it's obvious. The parents maybe won’t. But their kids. Watch out in the real world or on TV for the children of Syrian refugees that came here in 2016. In the mean time many of those graduated from German schools now and speak German very well (schools invested quite a bit in making sure of that) and learn a profession or even enroll in a University program. While Germany is certainly not a classic immigration country like the US is, as a German I really got the impression that we became much more open minded. Personally, at my work place we started out as a prototypical mid-range company financed by Bavarian entrepreneurs and were pretty much speaking German only. Nowadays (10 years later) we‘ve got many Indian, Turkish and Eastern European colleagues and speak almost only English in meetings. Even our CEO is non-German now. I don’t think that would have worked 10 years ago nut younger co-workers nowadays tend to be much more proficient in speaking English. Of course, living in Munich and Berlin won’t give you quite the same experience like living in Rostock-Lichtenhagen… but parent mentioned she or he plans on founding a start-up. Office space is less expensive in smaller cities like Rostock (or Wismar or you name your favorite less world famous German city), too, and with remote work it is much easier these days to setup an international team in a German company located even in more obscure places. And it gives neighborhoods a chance to develop and rise from their obscurity. Anybody reading this from the city of Neubrandenburg? ;) (I just learned about its existence a couple of years ago as a German native.)

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

> It's a fairly hostile place to be if you're not German even if you're white. It can also be hostile even if you're German but not white. BS. If Germany were that hostile it wouldn't attract the biggest migration waves from non-white African and Middle Eastern countries in all of Europe. And now home to over one million Ukrainians. >Let me tell you as someone who lives in Germany right now: the vast majority of 1M Syrian refugees will never, ever, ever integrate into German society. Again, BS. Most Syrians I met spoke much better German than techie expats who were entitled enough to think that learning German is something beneath them, only mandatory for the lower classes of immigrants doing blue collar work, while they should be somehow exempt because they're special snowflakes who push code to git in English at work so the whole society should switch to English for their ~2% demographic of SW devs to accommodate their laziness of not bothering to integrate and learn the local language of their host country they choose to move into. >Even if you change your name to Winfried and got C2 German, you'll still never be accepted here. Again, more biased BS. I did my best to learn German and mostly hanged out, dated and socialized in German circles instead of English speaking expat circles so I could integrate better, and was always accepted and never discriminated by the Germans because I was a foreigner. I even became friends with people working at the German Government in Berlin or with kids of upper class Bavarians who owned vacation homes in Sylt or Austria. Of course you will find bigoted racists everywhere, but I found the Germans to be very friendly and inclusive if you show willingness to integrate. How far do you think you'd go without English fluency as an immigrant in US or UK? >As if Germany is doing everyone a favour by letting people move there. If there was no demographic crisis then immigration would be practically impossible. I am doing Germany a favour by moving here at least as much as they are doing me a favour by letting me. Germany is a democratic country responsible to provide to the German citizens with voting rights. It's not a country founded by immigrants, like the US, who focuses on pandering to non-German immigrants. If Germany has decided it wants to commit demographic suicide then so be it, it's well within their rights to do so, what gives us foreigners the right to complain about it when we voluntarily chose to come here? Their country, their rules. No like? Vote with your feet and choose another country. Expats make the mistake of expecting Germany to be like Europe's USA. Let's be real here, you didn't benevolently move to Germany to save their demographics like some superhero, but you did it because you found a good economic opportunity in doing so for yourself. Germany didn't kidnap you and bring you here against your will to save their economy, you voluntarily decide to come because it benefited you. Then it's our responsibility as guest to integrate in their society, and not vice versa. Again, how far do you think you'd go without English fluency as an immigrant in US or UK? >I'm an academic in a fairly obscure branch of physics so in this case I can categorically say that I do have those rare skills. Living in Germany mostly makes no sense if you're not German or not a refugee. Then why are you staying in a country you feel doesn't like you? If you're such a special immigrant, why aren't you voting with your feet and moving to a country that is more accommodating to your kind? Question: if you'd leave, would the German GDP or company you work for collapse in your absence? If not, maybe you're not as special as you think and the country is doing fine without you as well.