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>If eastern Germany is still affordable like that then it might be for a reason. I'm not German, but you can't complain there's no affordable housing when the

>If eastern Germany is still affordable like that then it might be for a reason. I'm not German, but you can't complain there's no affordable housing when there actually is, but you just don't want it. Just because you only want to move only to a specific city you like, that has the "right vibe", where others also want to live, it's not society's fault you're too picky and you think you're too good for other more affordable cities. Beggars can't be choosers. That's like complaining about starving with a plate of Big Macs next to you because it's not what you like to eat. >Don't move there unless you pass as a German and speak the language. That's total nonsense. Plenty of foreigners who don't "pass as German" live in East German cities just fine. And why is it so bad that you have to learn the local language when you move somewhere? Do you not need to speak English when you move to the UK/US? The official language in Germany is German, not English. Best learn it if you move there out of respect for the host country and to integrate and become part of society. If you're lazy about integration and learning German, and only want to move somewhere just to make money and party in expat bubbles secluded from the German society, in cities where English is the majority spoken language, then you can't complain they're unaffordable when everyone other white collar yippie expat wants to do the same. Again, beggars can't be choosers. That's like complaining there's rush hour traffic jams, when you're part of the traffic jam. And I got news for you (not you specifically, but others who have this mentality): whenever you move to a new country as a foreigner, you'll always be at a disadvantage for housing, especially if you don't speak the language, and just because you got a visa for a white collar job at some startup making the fifth best food delivery app, doesn't make you a special snowflake worthy of the German society to turn itself upside down for you and roll the red carpet and make life super easy for you. It's still your job to integrate in the country you choose to move including dealing with the unpleasant things. You(We)'re not special. 99% chance you were given a visa and got hired there not because you've got some super rare skills nobody there had, but because of wage dumping. You moving there puts downward pressure on wages and upward pressure on rents, meaning the government, landlords, and business owners can profit from your presence there. We're basically cattle in the economic machine. You should be aware of these facts and factor them into your decision when it comes to immigrating somewhere, as it's never a free ticket to El Dorado as many delusional white collar expats (tech workers especially) think.

twixfel 4y ago
This is just the just world fallacy in a post. If you lived in Germany you would understand that statements like this that you wrote: > doesn't make you a special snowflake worthy of the German society to turn itself upside down for you and roll the red carpet and make life super easy for you are utterly, utterly ridiculous. There is absolutely no risk whatsoever of Germany "rolling the red carpet" for immigrants. It's a fairly hostile place to be if you're not German even if you're white. It can also be hostile even if you're German but not white. Among "expat" destinations (so plausible expat destinations, so excluding, e.g. DRC), it regularly tops the rankings as the worst place to live (harder to live in than Japan or China, and no disrespect to those two countries, but they are traditionally considered benchmark definitions of exclusive countries). > Best learn it if you move there out of respect for the host country and to integrate and become part of society Let me tell you as someone who lives in Germany right now: the vast majority of 1M Syrian refugees will never, ever, ever integrate into German society. I had no opinion on this before I moved here, now it's obvious. Your idea that integration is purely a one way street is nonsense and only leads to broken societies. Even if you change your name to Winfried and got C2 German, you'll still never be accepted here. Maybe your children will be, but maybe not if they're not white. But the fact is that if countries want immigrants to pay for their boomers' pensions, they need to actually be a generally more welcoming and friendly society. "Fuck you, learn German, and go and live in Chemnitz" don't really pass muster these days. I mean for example this is nonsense: > make you a special snowflake worthy of the German society to turn itself upside down for you and roll the red carpet As if Germany is doing everyone a favour by letting people move there. If there was no demographic crisis then immigration would be practically impossible. I am doing Germany a favour by moving here at least as much as they are doing me a favour by letting me. > there not because you've got some super rare skills nobody there had I'm an academic in a fairly obscure branch of physics so in this case I can categorically say that I do have those rare skills. Everything you said about the country is wrong. Their advice: "don't move here unless you speak German" is absolutely on point, and what I myself tell people. Living in Germany mostly makes no sense if you're not German or not a refugee.
- G3rn0ti 4y ago
  > the vast majority of 1M Syrian refugees will never, ever, ever integrate into German society. I had no opinion on this before I moved here, now it's obvious. The parents maybe won’t. But their kids. Watch out in the real world or on TV for the children of Syrian refugees that came here in 2016. In the mean time many of those graduated from German schools now and speak German very well (schools invested quite a bit in making sure of that) and learn a profession or even enroll in a University program. While Germany is certainly not a classic immigration country like the US is, as a German I really got the impression that we became much more open minded. Personally, at my work place we started out as a prototypical mid-range company financed by Bavarian entrepreneurs and were pretty much speaking German only. Nowadays (10 years later) we‘ve got many Indian, Turkish and Eastern European colleagues and speak almost only English in meetings. Even our CEO is non-German now. I don’t think that would have worked 10 years ago nut younger co-workers nowadays tend to be much more proficient in speaking English. Of course, living in Munich and Berlin won’t give you quite the same experience like living in Rostock-Lichtenhagen… but parent mentioned she or he plans on founding a start-up. Office space is less expensive in smaller cities like Rostock (or Wismar or you name your favorite less world famous German city), too, and with remote work it is much easier these days to setup an international team in a German company located even in more obscure places. And it gives neighborhoods a chance to develop and rise from their obscurity. Anybody reading this from the city of Neubrandenburg? ;) (I just learned about its existence a couple of years ago as a German native.)

twixfel 4y ago

This is just the just world fallacy in a post. If you lived in Germany you would understand that statements like this that you wrote: > doesn't make you a special snowflake worthy of the German society to turn itself upside down for you and roll the red carpet and make life super easy for you are utterly, utterly ridiculous. There is absolutely no risk whatsoever of Germany "rolling the red carpet" for immigrants. It's a fairly hostile place to be if you're not German even if you're white. It can also be hostile even if you're German but not white. Among "expat" destinations (so plausible expat destinations, so excluding, e.g. DRC), it regularly tops the rankings as the worst place to live (harder to live in than Japan or China, and no disrespect to those two countries, but they are traditionally considered benchmark definitions of exclusive countries). > Best learn it if you move there out of respect for the host country and to integrate and become part of society Let me tell you as someone who lives in Germany right now: the vast majority of 1M Syrian refugees will never, ever, ever integrate into German society. I had no opinion on this before I moved here, now it's obvious. Your idea that integration is purely a one way street is nonsense and only leads to broken societies. Even if you change your name to Winfried and got C2 German, you'll still never be accepted here. Maybe your children will be, but maybe not if they're not white. But the fact is that if countries want immigrants to pay for their boomers' pensions, they need to actually be a generally more welcoming and friendly society. "Fuck you, learn German, and go and live in Chemnitz" don't really pass muster these days. I mean for example this is nonsense: > make you a special snowflake worthy of the German society to turn itself upside down for you and roll the red carpet As if Germany is doing everyone a favour by letting people move there. If there was no demographic crisis then immigration would be practically impossible. I am doing Germany a favour by moving here at least as much as they are doing me a favour by letting me. > there not because you've got some super rare skills nobody there had I'm an academic in a fairly obscure branch of physics so in this case I can categorically say that I do have those rare skills. Everything you said about the country is wrong. Their advice: "don't move here unless you speak German" is absolutely on point, and what I myself tell people. Living in Germany mostly makes no sense if you're not German or not a refugee.

G3rn0ti 4y ago
> the vast majority of 1M Syrian refugees will never, ever, ever integrate into German society. I had no opinion on this before I moved here, now it's obvious. The parents maybe won’t. But their kids. Watch out in the real world or on TV for the children of Syrian refugees that came here in 2016. In the mean time many of those graduated from German schools now and speak German very well (schools invested quite a bit in making sure of that) and learn a profession or even enroll in a University program. While Germany is certainly not a classic immigration country like the US is, as a German I really got the impression that we became much more open minded. Personally, at my work place we started out as a prototypical mid-range company financed by Bavarian entrepreneurs and were pretty much speaking German only. Nowadays (10 years later) we‘ve got many Indian, Turkish and Eastern European colleagues and speak almost only English in meetings. Even our CEO is non-German now. I don’t think that would have worked 10 years ago nut younger co-workers nowadays tend to be much more proficient in speaking English. Of course, living in Munich and Berlin won’t give you quite the same experience like living in Rostock-Lichtenhagen… but parent mentioned she or he plans on founding a start-up. Office space is less expensive in smaller cities like Rostock (or Wismar or you name your favorite less world famous German city), too, and with remote work it is much easier these days to setup an international team in a German company located even in more obscure places. And it gives neighborhoods a chance to develop and rise from their obscurity. Anybody reading this from the city of Neubrandenburg? ;) (I just learned about its existence a couple of years ago as a German native.)