4 ms·

> 1) the immigration rate is so high it isn't enough to keep up That could be addressed by making home building a priority and by relaxing regulations like zon

> 1) the immigration rate is so high it isn't enough to keep up That could be addressed by making home building a priority and by relaxing regulations like zoning. Allow more infill. > 3) The government doesn't want to do anything about it because immigration is how they're keeping down wages That's not the only reason to support immigration. Canada, as is the case with most western nations, is facing a demographic cliff due to lowering birthrates among it's citizens. Countries that allow more immigration can mitigate these demographic problems. Countries that are facing birthrates that are falling to or under the replacement rate should be trying to attract immigrant labor. Countries in that position that don't are going to be facing some serious issues in the not too distant future as their populations age.

pcthrowaway 4y ago
> That could be addressed by making home building a priority and by relaxing regulations like zoning. Allow more infill. Unfortunately, it seems like incentives aren't aligned with the people responsible for zoning and regulation, for that to happen. Incumbent homeowners for whatever reason are better organized at mobilizing around their political interests
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  There’s another reason that local governments don’t embrace intensification, which is that they will be responsible for building the infrastructure to support it. Take a look at Jakarta where zoning laws focus heavily on intensification. Housing is cheap, but power cuts are normal, most of the city smells like sewage because you have sewage flowing into storm water infrastructure, the city regularly floods, and parts of it are sinking into to ocean because unregulated ground water extraction has caused meters worth of subsistence in some areas (the roads are also terrible, but surprisingly the city has been making very good progress in that area at least). Now you can manage all of those things, but it requires competence and proper management of resources. Something local governments tend to not be good at, and why would any of them want to take the risk? Expensive housing and bad traffic is the status quo, flooding you could probably blame on climate change, but power cuts, lack of running water and a city that smells like shit would cost too many people their jobs.
  - brewdad 4y ago
    This is easily solved with impact fees. Builders pay a fee in my town of about $30,000 as part of the permit process for a single family home. That money goes towards the necessary infrastructure improvements.
    - AmericanChopper 4y ago
      It’s not easily solved at all, because the hard part is planning and building and maintaining the infrastructure. Something local governments frequently reveal themselves incapable of doing, even when they’re sufficiently financed. That’s before you have to contend with the incentives of governance bodies often being not exactly aligned with that outcome. Responsible management of basic services isn’t usually a platform that drives voter engagement. Local governments are incentivised to minimise how much they spend on basic infrastructure, not intentionally create new demand for it.
bryanlarsen 4y ago
Ironically you're complaining about the Canadian government not doing anything on the exact day that the FHSA comes into effect, which is a plan to make it easier to buy a home.
- LegitShady 4y ago
  The FHSA allows people who have excess money beyond what they can save in a TFSA to save tax money on income put aside for the specific purpose of saving to buy a first house, but on much worse terms than a TFSA. If you've maxed out your TFSA and have room to save in the HFSA, great, but its got a time limit and most people will have room in their TFSA already.
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    Sure, if the parent had said that the government was ineffective in its attempts to fix the problem I would have agreed. But they said they were doing nothing, and it was just so ironic the comment came on the day one of several attempts the government has made to address the problem.
    - LegitShady 4y ago
      ah I see, completely ineffectual tax breaks for already wealthy is different from nothing, so you're going to nitpick instead of trying to communicate a position. I think I've seen where you're coming from, and I'm uninterested in any more of your opinion.
      - bryanlarsen 4y ago
        I see you have a fine appreciation for irony. Housing and zoning are a provincial responsibility. You can blame Trudeau and Harper for lots of stuff, but not the housing mess.

pcthrowaway 4y ago

> That could be addressed by making home building a priority and by relaxing regulations like zoning. Allow more infill. Unfortunately, it seems like incentives aren't aligned with the people responsible for zoning and regulation, for that to happen. Incumbent homeowners for whatever reason are better organized at mobilizing around their political interests

AmericanChopper 4y ago
There’s another reason that local governments don’t embrace intensification, which is that they will be responsible for building the infrastructure to support it. Take a look at Jakarta where zoning laws focus heavily on intensification. Housing is cheap, but power cuts are normal, most of the city smells like sewage because you have sewage flowing into storm water infrastructure, the city regularly floods, and parts of it are sinking into to ocean because unregulated ground water extraction has caused meters worth of subsistence in some areas (the roads are also terrible, but surprisingly the city has been making very good progress in that area at least). Now you can manage all of those things, but it requires competence and proper management of resources. Something local governments tend to not be good at, and why would any of them want to take the risk? Expensive housing and bad traffic is the status quo, flooding you could probably blame on climate change, but power cuts, lack of running water and a city that smells like shit would cost too many people their jobs.
- brewdad 4y ago
  This is easily solved with impact fees. Builders pay a fee in my town of about $30,000 as part of the permit process for a single family home. That money goes towards the necessary infrastructure improvements.
  - AmericanChopper 4y ago
    It’s not easily solved at all, because the hard part is planning and building and maintaining the infrastructure. Something local governments frequently reveal themselves incapable of doing, even when they’re sufficiently financed. That’s before you have to contend with the incentives of governance bodies often being not exactly aligned with that outcome. Responsible management of basic services isn’t usually a platform that drives voter engagement. Local governments are incentivised to minimise how much they spend on basic infrastructure, not intentionally create new demand for it.

bryanlarsen 4y ago

Ironically you're complaining about the Canadian government not doing anything on the exact day that the FHSA comes into effect, which is a plan to make it easier to buy a home.

LegitShady 4y ago
The FHSA allows people who have excess money beyond what they can save in a TFSA to save tax money on income put aside for the specific purpose of saving to buy a first house, but on much worse terms than a TFSA. If you've maxed out your TFSA and have room to save in the HFSA, great, but its got a time limit and most people will have room in their TFSA already.
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  Sure, if the parent had said that the government was ineffective in its attempts to fix the problem I would have agreed. But they said they were doing nothing, and it was just so ironic the comment came on the day one of several attempts the government has made to address the problem.
  - LegitShady 4y ago
    ah I see, completely ineffectual tax breaks for already wealthy is different from nothing, so you're going to nitpick instead of trying to communicate a position. I think I've seen where you're coming from, and I'm uninterested in any more of your opinion.
    - bryanlarsen 4y ago
      I see you have a fine appreciation for irony. Housing and zoning are a provincial responsibility. You can blame Trudeau and Harper for lots of stuff, but not the housing mess.