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I prefer unlimited PTO. I can see toxic workplaces making it worse than the alternative. But I’ve only worked in places where it was no issue for me to take 4-5

I prefer unlimited PTO. I can see toxic workplaces making it worse than the alternative. But I’ve only worked in places where it was no issue for me to take 4-5 weeks off per year on their unlimited vacation policy.

hammock 4y ago
A toxic workplace is a toxic workplace, whatever PTO you have. A toxic workplace can make fixed PTO just as miserable as unlimited PTO if they want to, and vice versa
- listenallyall 4y ago
  Exactly. Sure, take your PTO, just get three approvals first, use this broken online HR web site to make sure payroll knows, and confirm that this is your cell phone number just in case we need to reach you. Oh wait, no, sorry, that date range is our really busy season, no big deal, don't worry the Grand Canyon will still be there next month.
hombre_fatal 4y ago
Well, yeah. Everything is easy in a functional workplace. You can even have de facto unlimited PTO while not having it officially. Official Unlimited PTO is a scam because of how easy it is to abuse in toxic workplaces. It’s a shortcut for saying there’s no minimum and you can take vacation when everything is caught up (nothing is ever caught up).
- teaearlgraycold 4y ago
  I was lucky enough to work at copy.ai as they were defining their PTO policy and got the CEO to agree to unlimited PTO along with a minimum of 3 weeks.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    This is the best way to do it. The biggest blocker to folks taking advantage of the unlimited PTO is "my peers aren't doing it", which required PTO circumvents neatly. And forcing people to take PTO (especially in 2+ week chunks) is also a good thing for the company: it helps the company identify and fix single points of failure in their employees skills and knowledge.
- r00fus 4y ago
  And for those of you who are lucky enough to to currently have non-toxic workplaces, are you sure management changes or business needs wont change this in the future?
lostlogin 4y ago
4 weeks leave is a legal minimum where I live and public holidays come on top of that (12 per year). Many employers give 5. It accrues if you don’t take it.
dangwhy 4y ago
> take 4-5 weeks off per year how do you come up with this number though. If its a set number like that then why not make that official PTO.
- teaearlgraycold 4y ago
  I take off when I want time off. If it's a set number then usually you need to worry about how many days you have accrued. So you are not able to take 1 day PTO until you've worked for a few weeks. Or you might have trouble scheduling time off early in the year having used most of your allowance around the holidays. Unlimited means the system is flexible.
  - dangwhy 4y ago
    yes but how did you come up N weeks number though. That was the problem i had with previous jobs with unlimited.
    - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
      I just took off time I wanted off and ended up taking 4-5 weeks. Honestly as a software engineer I feel like my days "on" are close to many people's days "off" anyway. So days off just meant I could travel.
paulcole 4y ago
If it’s unlimited PTO, why not take 52 weeks off a year? I got a job offer from a company that offered unlimited PTO a few months back and wish I had accepted and then given that a shot. Edit: If you’re downvoting me because “of course unlimited doesn’t mean unlimited”, you’ve just stumbled across the reason why unlimited PTO policies are nonsense.
- mathgeek 4y ago
  “Of course it’s not unlimited, you’re going to retire some day!”
OJFord 4y ago
Does 4-5 weeks mean 20-25 days? If so that's pretty much 'statutory to bog standard' in the UK, which aiui is on the low end of Europe.
lisasays 4y ago
So why not just call it "Our lovely 5 week vacation policy?" Do you actually prefer the gratuitous cognitive dissonance of calling it "unlimited" when everyone knows it isn't (and everyone knows that everyone knows, etc)?

hammock 4y ago

A toxic workplace is a toxic workplace, whatever PTO you have. A toxic workplace can make fixed PTO just as miserable as unlimited PTO if they want to, and vice versa

listenallyall 4y ago
Exactly. Sure, take your PTO, just get three approvals first, use this broken online HR web site to make sure payroll knows, and confirm that this is your cell phone number just in case we need to reach you. Oh wait, no, sorry, that date range is our really busy season, no big deal, don't worry the Grand Canyon will still be there next month.

hombre_fatal 4y ago

Well, yeah. Everything is easy in a functional workplace. You can even have de facto unlimited PTO while not having it officially. Official Unlimited PTO is a scam because of how easy it is to abuse in toxic workplaces. It’s a shortcut for saying there’s no minimum and you can take vacation when everything is caught up (nothing is ever caught up).

teaearlgraycold 4y ago
I was lucky enough to work at copy.ai as they were defining their PTO policy and got the CEO to agree to unlimited PTO along with a minimum of 3 weeks.
- falcolas 4y ago
  This is the best way to do it. The biggest blocker to folks taking advantage of the unlimited PTO is "my peers aren't doing it", which required PTO circumvents neatly. And forcing people to take PTO (especially in 2+ week chunks) is also a good thing for the company: it helps the company identify and fix single points of failure in their employees skills and knowledge.
r00fus 4y ago
And for those of you who are lucky enough to to currently have non-toxic workplaces, are you sure management changes or business needs wont change this in the future?

lostlogin 4y ago

4 weeks leave is a legal minimum where I live and public holidays come on top of that (12 per year). Many employers give 5. It accrues if you don’t take it.

dangwhy 4y ago

> take 4-5 weeks off per year how do you come up with this number though. If its a set number like that then why not make that official PTO.

teaearlgraycold 4y ago
I take off when I want time off. If it's a set number then usually you need to worry about how many days you have accrued. So you are not able to take 1 day PTO until you've worked for a few weeks. Or you might have trouble scheduling time off early in the year having used most of your allowance around the holidays. Unlimited means the system is flexible.
- dangwhy 4y ago
  yes but how did you come up N weeks number though. That was the problem i had with previous jobs with unlimited.
  - teaearlgraycold 4y ago
    I just took off time I wanted off and ended up taking 4-5 weeks. Honestly as a software engineer I feel like my days "on" are close to many people's days "off" anyway. So days off just meant I could travel.

paulcole 4y ago

If it’s unlimited PTO, why not take 52 weeks off a year? I got a job offer from a company that offered unlimited PTO a few months back and wish I had accepted and then given that a shot. Edit: If you’re downvoting me because “of course unlimited doesn’t mean unlimited”, you’ve just stumbled across the reason why unlimited PTO policies are nonsense.

mathgeek 4y ago
“Of course it’s not unlimited, you’re going to retire some day!”

OJFord 4y ago

Does 4-5 weeks mean 20-25 days? If so that's pretty much 'statutory to bog standard' in the UK, which aiui is on the low end of Europe.

lisasays 4y ago

So why not just call it "Our lovely 5 week vacation policy?" Do you actually prefer the gratuitous cognitive dissonance of calling it "unlimited" when everyone knows it isn't (and everyone knows that everyone knows, etc)?