5 ms·

>I’d like to go back to split PTO and sick time What's the benefit compared to having a single bucket?

ghaff 4y ago
Because, historically, you had vacation which you planned for and sick time which you did not--but which was just there if you were sick up to often fairly generous limits (or just have a lot of doctor's appointments). Being laid up with the flu or an unexpected surgery for a week didn't mean you potentially had to cancel your vacation that year.
- Uvix 4y ago
  There's better solutions to that, like allowing carryover (if people don't need to schedule all their PTO to be used before year's end, they can have some "slop" for unexpected needs), and/or allowing a certain amount of PTO to be used in arrears. If you separate out vacation and sick time, then employees need to lie to use all of their time off.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    >If you separate out vacation and sick time, then employees need to lie to use all of their time off. This was historically mostly not a problem. People took vacation and they used sick time if they needed to (including I'm sure for the occasional hangover). Sick time wasn't "your" time to use up in the normal course of events. But it was there if you needed it. Sick time was never viewed as a benefit to maximize any more than health insurance was. Pooling them still leads to a "sucks to be you if you need to take a lot of sick leave." I guess that you can argue that's not the company's problem. But to me that's a generally un-empathetic attitude.
kayodelycaon 4y ago
For someone with a disability, having combined PTO and sick time basically means taking time off to remain healthy means you don’t get time off to actually do anything with your life. Sick days aren’t vacation for me. I’m generally too depressed or manic to function. I’ll usually drive to a park or the local zoo to walk so I’m not sitting in a chair, too anxious or tired to get up. Somehow that’s “vacation” time because I’m able to (or need to) leave my house.
- fm2606 4y ago
  1000% this. I have routine procedures that require 2 days just for the procedures. Then a half day for travel. The hospital is 2.5 hours away. One of those days is a prep day so I don't venture to far from the hotel. And this is a yearly occurrence. Now if I have an acute episode that is a 3 day stay (at a local hospital). Which, luckily this only happens every other year or so. Basically if I take any time off that is true vacation days I have to make sure I have plenty of days on the books in case I get sick or know I will be having to make doctor appointments in the next few months.
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    I’m out a lot more frequently than that. If I actually took the time I needed, it would be 2~3 days each month. I usually want to take a minimum 12 days of vacation per year to attend conventions and visit people. The end result is me spending a week or more per month being barely functional. I’m at my desk, poking at code I don’t have enough brain power to understand. But, better to “work” than get in trouble for not being visibly at my desk.
    - fm2606 4y ago
      Sorry to hear that. As far as diseases go I guess I'm fairly fortunate. I don't have to manage it day-to-day but it is always in the back of my mind. If I had known in my teens and 20s I'd end up with this type of disease I'd have done drugs and raw dogged some hookers, at least I'd be able to point to a reason for having a bad liver. /s
  - no_wizard 4y ago
    In the US, you can use sick time for these things, BTW. Things that are required for care are legally allowed to be used as sick time instead of PTO. I think the unlimited time off loophole damages the sick time more than actual vacation, as others have pointed out in this thread, which is the real shame.
    - brewdad 4y ago

Because, historically, you had vacation which you planned for and sick time which you did not--but which was just there if you were sick up to often fairly generous limits (or just have a lot of doctor's appointments). Being laid up with the flu or an unexpected surgery for a week didn't mean you potentially had to cancel your vacation that year.

Uvix 4y ago
There's better solutions to that, like allowing carryover (if people don't need to schedule all their PTO to be used before year's end, they can have some "slop" for unexpected needs), and/or allowing a certain amount of PTO to be used in arrears. If you separate out vacation and sick time, then employees need to lie to use all of their time off.
- ghaff 4y ago
  >If you separate out vacation and sick time, then employees need to lie to use all of their time off. This was historically mostly not a problem. People took vacation and they used sick time if they needed to (including I'm sure for the occasional hangover). Sick time wasn't "your" time to use up in the normal course of events. But it was there if you needed it. Sick time was never viewed as a benefit to maximize any more than health insurance was. Pooling them still leads to a "sucks to be you if you need to take a lot of sick leave." I guess that you can argue that's not the company's problem. But to me that's a generally un-empathetic attitude.

kayodelycaon 4y ago

For someone with a disability, having combined PTO and sick time basically means taking time off to remain healthy means you don’t get time off to actually do anything with your life. Sick days aren’t vacation for me. I’m generally too depressed or manic to function. I’ll usually drive to a park or the local zoo to walk so I’m not sitting in a chair, too anxious or tired to get up. Somehow that’s “vacation” time because I’m able to (or need to) leave my house.

fm2606 4y ago
1000% this. I have routine procedures that require 2 days just for the procedures. Then a half day for travel. The hospital is 2.5 hours away. One of those days is a prep day so I don't venture to far from the hotel. And this is a yearly occurrence. Now if I have an acute episode that is a 3 day stay (at a local hospital). Which, luckily this only happens every other year or so. Basically if I take any time off that is true vacation days I have to make sure I have plenty of days on the books in case I get sick or know I will be having to make doctor appointments in the next few months.
- kayodelycaon 4y ago
  I’m out a lot more frequently than that. If I actually took the time I needed, it would be 2~3 days each month. I usually want to take a minimum 12 days of vacation per year to attend conventions and visit people. The end result is me spending a week or more per month being barely functional. I’m at my desk, poking at code I don’t have enough brain power to understand. But, better to “work” than get in trouble for not being visibly at my desk.
  - fm2606 4y ago
    Sorry to hear that. As far as diseases go I guess I'm fairly fortunate. I don't have to manage it day-to-day but it is always in the back of my mind. If I had known in my teens and 20s I'd end up with this type of disease I'd have done drugs and raw dogged some hookers, at least I'd be able to point to a reason for having a bad liver. /s
- no_wizard 4y ago
  In the US, you can use sick time for these things, BTW. Things that are required for care are legally allowed to be used as sick time instead of PTO. I think the unlimited time off loophole damages the sick time more than actual vacation, as others have pointed out in this thread, which is the real shame.
  - brewdad 4y ago