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IANAL lawyer, but Texas codifies lethal force in defense of property. In theory, if the thief was trying to drive away in the truck, the owner had authority to

IANAL lawyer, but Texas codifies lethal force in defense of property. In theory, if the thief was trying to drive away in the truck, the owner had authority to shoot them to stop them from driving away. Obviously I don't know the circumstances in this case. But the use of lethal force in defense of property, I can't say it's unique to Texas, I believe it's uncommon nationally.

runnerup 4y ago
> Texas codifies lethal force in defense of property. Only at night.
- bsder 4y ago
  No. https://www.dougmurphylaw.com/defense-of-property https://www.dougmurphylaw.com/defense-of-property > Using Force to Regain Your Property In Texas, you may also be justified in using force to pursue and recover your personal property. Penal Code § 9.41 also extends the right to use force in defense of property when: You are unlawfully dispossessed of your land or tangible property; You reasonably believe that force is immediately necessary in fresh pursuit to reenter the land or recover your property; and The other person had no right to the property and/or acquired such property using force, threat, or fraud. In simpler terms, you may be justified in using immediate force to regain control of property that was unlawfully taken from you. However, this use of force must be in “fresh pursuit” of the property, meaning that no significant time has elapsed since the theft or trespass.
  - sacnoradhq 4y ago
    IANAL, but this doctrine seems inherently problematic and fraught with legal hazards to the would-be pursuer. Civil suits at a minimum. It's wiser to call authorities. Unless you live in Austin, where most nonviolent crimes are essentially ignored.
    - bsder 4y ago
      It's going to be problematic for almost everything except a vehicle. A vehicle is registered with the state and has multiple identifying marks. Is it wiser to call the authorities? No question. There is no fucking way I'm going to personally go tangle with someone who is likely part of a criminal group, thank you very much. I suspect a "Hi, I'm so and so. I reported my car stolen and the tracker has it marked at <place X>. I'm about to go reclaim it using Penal Code 9.41--I should be there in an hour. Would you folks like to escort me?" would have been more effective. The fact that a shootout is about to occur tends to get the police to move even when stolen property won't.
ajot 4y ago
A bit of offtopic pedantry, but IANAL already has the word lawyer implied.
sacnoradhq 4y ago
IANAL, perhaps de jure, but I would disagree in principle and de facto. Nonessential-to-life property isn't worth taking a life. Drawing a firearm without firing a shot in defense of oneself (not property) from imminent great bodily harm by a group of subjects still results in a near automatic AWD charge and presumed costly legal fees. Texas isn't the "wild west" and overincarceration is rampant.
- LapsangGuzzler 4y ago
  > Nonessential-to-life property A car is pretty essential to life, especially in place like Texas. New and used cars are skyrocketing in price, and if you're a lower wage employee, chances are that you still have to commute to work. For millions of Americans, losing a car means losing their livelihoods.
  - sacnoradhq 4y ago
    You're misusing the word "life" and conflating it ungenerously. Absence of a car won't kill you.
- steponlego 4y ago
  Stealing a car is like stealing a horse, a penalty punishable by death since the Roman days. Deprive somebody of their car by theft and you could be killing them, in the deep desert. There is an argument that a person who steals a truck is probably working their way toward murdering for a truck so it's like a vaccine for society, as well.
- tomjen3 4y ago
  The life of a car thief is not worth me stepping one foot to the right. They cause massive harm to society and should be dealt with.

runnerup 4y ago

> Texas codifies lethal force in defense of property. Only at night.

bsder 4y ago
No. https://www.dougmurphylaw.com/defense-of-property https://www.dougmurphylaw.com/defense-of-property > Using Force to Regain Your Property In Texas, you may also be justified in using force to pursue and recover your personal property. Penal Code § 9.41 also extends the right to use force in defense of property when: You are unlawfully dispossessed of your land or tangible property; You reasonably believe that force is immediately necessary in fresh pursuit to reenter the land or recover your property; and The other person had no right to the property and/or acquired such property using force, threat, or fraud. In simpler terms, you may be justified in using immediate force to regain control of property that was unlawfully taken from you. However, this use of force must be in “fresh pursuit” of the property, meaning that no significant time has elapsed since the theft or trespass.
- sacnoradhq 4y ago
  IANAL, but this doctrine seems inherently problematic and fraught with legal hazards to the would-be pursuer. Civil suits at a minimum. It's wiser to call authorities. Unless you live in Austin, where most nonviolent crimes are essentially ignored.
  - bsder 4y ago
    It's going to be problematic for almost everything except a vehicle. A vehicle is registered with the state and has multiple identifying marks. Is it wiser to call the authorities? No question. There is no fucking way I'm going to personally go tangle with someone who is likely part of a criminal group, thank you very much. I suspect a "Hi, I'm so and so. I reported my car stolen and the tracker has it marked at <place X>. I'm about to go reclaim it using Penal Code 9.41--I should be there in an hour. Would you folks like to escort me?" would have been more effective. The fact that a shootout is about to occur tends to get the police to move even when stolen property won't.

ajot 4y ago

A bit of offtopic pedantry, but IANAL already has the word lawyer implied.

sacnoradhq 4y ago

IANAL, perhaps de jure, but I would disagree in principle and de facto. Nonessential-to-life property isn't worth taking a life. Drawing a firearm without firing a shot in defense of oneself (not property) from imminent great bodily harm by a group of subjects still results in a near automatic AWD charge and presumed costly legal fees. Texas isn't the "wild west" and overincarceration is rampant.

LapsangGuzzler 4y ago
> Nonessential-to-life property A car is pretty essential to life, especially in place like Texas. New and used cars are skyrocketing in price, and if you're a lower wage employee, chances are that you still have to commute to work. For millions of Americans, losing a car means losing their livelihoods.
- sacnoradhq 4y ago
  You're misusing the word "life" and conflating it ungenerously. Absence of a car won't kill you.
steponlego 4y ago
Stealing a car is like stealing a horse, a penalty punishable by death since the Roman days. Deprive somebody of their car by theft and you could be killing them, in the deep desert. There is an argument that a person who steals a truck is probably working their way toward murdering for a truck so it's like a vaccine for society, as well.
tomjen3 4y ago
The life of a car thief is not worth me stepping one foot to the right. They cause massive harm to society and should be dealt with.