6 ms·

Looks like the media has chosen Sam Altman as the next Elon Musk. This makes sense. He perfectly fits their cliche of a socially-awkward technologist, and he's

Looks like the media has chosen Sam Altman as the next Elon Musk. This makes sense. He perfectly fits their cliche of a socially-awkward technologist, and he's trusting (foolish?) enough to make complex nuanced statements in public, which they can easily mine for out-of-context clickbait and vilification fodder.

greyman 4y ago
What would make him "socially-awkward"?
- schiffern 4y ago
  Sam or Elon? I'll assume you meant Sam. IMO Sam is mostly just shy and cerebral, but to many people that will come off as awkward and robotic. Watch his recent Lex Fridman interview. Personally I thought it was great, but I'm aware enough to realize that (sadly) many low-knowledge people will judge such demeanor harshly. Mark my words: the media will, 10 times out of 10, exploit that misconception, not correct it. "Ye knew my nature when you let me climb upon your back..."
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - lubesGordi 4y ago
    I don't know, it seemed to me his responses on Lex were very measured and carefully restrained in a lot of places, calculated and vague in others. He doesn't come off as genuine to me at all.
  - drewcoo 4y ago
    If you mean the one where the interviewer, Lex, was wearing a suit and Sam was in a hoodie, where Sam droned in a robotic monotone and often sat with crossed arms, staring downward . . . I think the knowledgeable people might also assume he's the next evil tech overlord. Or certainly distant and uncaring. The only things missing were lighting from below and scenes of robots driving human slaves.
  - Kkoala 4y ago
    It's interesting that in the article he was described being "hyper-social", "very funny" and "big personality" as a child. I guess those don't necessarily contradict with awkward and robotic, but also wouldn't come to my mind at the same time
- andsoitis 4y ago
  You’ll get some clues when you watch his recent interview with Alex Fridman https://youtu.be/L_Guz73e6fw https://youtu.be/L_Guz73e6fw
- tedunangst 4y ago
  Never forget the time he wore sneakers to the Ritz.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
f38zf5vdt 4y ago
[flagged]
ninth_ant 4y ago
What specifically in that article was vilification of Sam or clickbait, or statements taken out of context?
- schiffern 4y ago
  In these early days of a smear campaign (even an unintentional one that's just about chasing clicks), the game is mostly about plausibly deniable innuendo. The headline is a great start. Contradictions are bad. Altman has contradictions. Therefore Altman is bad. They don't say it, but they also know they don't need to. They lead the audience to water and trust that enough of them will drink. The closing paragraph is another great example. It intentionally leaves the reader hanging on the question "so why did Altman do AI if there are moral downsides," without resolving the question by giving Altman's context when he said it. Trust me or don't, but what you see here is just the beginning. In 6 month's time Altman will be (in the public's eye) evil incarnate.
  - ninth_ant 4y ago
    They discussed the why earlier in the article, specifically a fear of AI being primarily developed in private labs outside of public view -- the partners feeling they could help bring an alternative approach. I feel they left it on that point not as part of some grand conspiracy theory, but because the potential for this to be good or bad is a question taking place around the world right now. Overall this piece feels positive towards Sam, despite what you feel is a negatively loaded headline. He's walking a delicate balance between profit and nonprofit, between something that could be harmful or helpful to society -- these things are in contradiction and he's making those choices deliberately. This is an interesting subject for an article. I find it deeply unlikely he will be viewed like Musk in 6 months. Musk is a fairly special case as he's unhinged and unstable more than evil. If someone wanted to paint Sam with an evil stick, Zuckerberg would be a more apt comparison -- playing with something dangerous that affects all of us.
    - schiffern 4y ago
      I genuinely hope that you're right and I'm totally wrong, but my experience watching the media landscape says otherwise. It would seem I have less faith in our journalistic institutions than you. The media operates on a "nearest cliché" algorithm, and the Mad/Evil Genius cliché is so emotionally appealing here that they'll find it irresistible. Even if it's not true, they'll make it true. Don't say I didn't warn you. :)
phillryu 4y ago
When I compare the two Elon was (lucky?) to at least have a string of vision-fueled ventures that became a thing. What is Sam's history of visions? Loopt? Is Y Combinator considered in a new golden era after he took over? Did Worldcoin make any sense at all? I'm honestly hoping I'm entirely ignorant of his substance and would feel better if someone here can explain there's more to him than that… I would feel better knowing that what could be history's most disruptive tech is being led by someone with some vision for it, beyond the apocalypse that he described in 2016 that he tries not to think about too much: "The other most popular scenarios would be A.I. that attacks us and nations fighting with nukes over scarce resources.” The Shypmates looked grave. “I try not to think about it too much,” Altman said. “But I have guns, gold, potassium iodide, antibiotics, batteries, water, gas masks from the Israeli Defense Force, and a big patch of land in Big Sur I can fly to.” https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-manifest-destiny https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-ma...
- schiffern 4y ago
  I'm not talking about the reality of Sam and Elon. I'm putting my ear to the ground and observing the way the media is (and will) portray them. I wish that "actual reality" was all that mattered and not such low-knowledge "optics", but sadly we don't live in that world.
- wetmore 4y ago
  I'm with you, listening to his interview with Ezra Klein gave me the impression that he doesn't actually think that deeply about the possible impact of AI. He says it worries him, but then he seems to wave those worries away with really simplistic solutions that don't seem very tenable.
  - xiphias2 4y ago
    The main question about OpenAI is this: can you have any better structure to create singularity that will happen anyways (Some people don't like the word AGI, so I just definine it by machines having wastly more intellectual power than humans). Would it be better if Google, Tesla or Microsoft / Apple / CCP or any other for profit company did it?
eternalban 4y ago
2014: https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/sam-altman-for-president/ https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/sam-altman-for-president/ 2015: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/opinion/sunday/sam-altman.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/opinion/sunday/sam-altman... 2016: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-manifest-destiny https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-ma... .. That last link, Sam Altman's Manifest Destiny, is worth the read. However the last time I posted that link HN went down for an hour right afterwards. (of course correlation is not causation :/) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35334023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35334023
seydor 4y ago
No, the next Zuckerberg. The media sees (rightly) openai as a competitor medium. Although he s much more prepared to face the next Greta (Yudowksi) He has to fix his vocal fry however, it is annoying

greyman 4y ago

What would make him "socially-awkward"?

schiffern 4y ago
Sam or Elon? I'll assume you meant Sam. IMO Sam is mostly just shy and cerebral, but to many people that will come off as awkward and robotic. Watch his recent Lex Fridman interview. Personally I thought it was great, but I'm aware enough to realize that (sadly) many low-knowledge people will judge such demeanor harshly. Mark my words: the media will, 10 times out of 10, exploit that misconception, not correct it. "Ye knew my nature when you let me climb upon your back..."
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- lubesGordi 4y ago
  I don't know, it seemed to me his responses on Lex were very measured and carefully restrained in a lot of places, calculated and vague in others. He doesn't come off as genuine to me at all.
- drewcoo 4y ago
  If you mean the one where the interviewer, Lex, was wearing a suit and Sam was in a hoodie, where Sam droned in a robotic monotone and often sat with crossed arms, staring downward . . . I think the knowledgeable people might also assume he's the next evil tech overlord. Or certainly distant and uncaring. The only things missing were lighting from below and scenes of robots driving human slaves.
- Kkoala 4y ago
  It's interesting that in the article he was described being "hyper-social", "very funny" and "big personality" as a child. I guess those don't necessarily contradict with awkward and robotic, but also wouldn't come to my mind at the same time
andsoitis 4y ago
You’ll get some clues when you watch his recent interview with Alex Fridman https://youtu.be/L_Guz73e6fw https://youtu.be/L_Guz73e6fw
tedunangst 4y ago
Never forget the time he wore sneakers to the Ritz.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

f38zf5vdt 4y ago

[flagged]

ninth_ant 4y ago

What specifically in that article was vilification of Sam or clickbait, or statements taken out of context?

schiffern 4y ago
In these early days of a smear campaign (even an unintentional one that's just about chasing clicks), the game is mostly about plausibly deniable innuendo. The headline is a great start. Contradictions are bad. Altman has contradictions. Therefore Altman is bad. They don't say it, but they also know they don't need to. They lead the audience to water and trust that enough of them will drink. The closing paragraph is another great example. It intentionally leaves the reader hanging on the question "so why did Altman do AI if there are moral downsides," without resolving the question by giving Altman's context when he said it. Trust me or don't, but what you see here is just the beginning. In 6 month's time Altman will be (in the public's eye) evil incarnate.
- ninth_ant 4y ago
  They discussed the why earlier in the article, specifically a fear of AI being primarily developed in private labs outside of public view -- the partners feeling they could help bring an alternative approach. I feel they left it on that point not as part of some grand conspiracy theory, but because the potential for this to be good or bad is a question taking place around the world right now. Overall this piece feels positive towards Sam, despite what you feel is a negatively loaded headline. He's walking a delicate balance between profit and nonprofit, between something that could be harmful or helpful to society -- these things are in contradiction and he's making those choices deliberately. This is an interesting subject for an article. I find it deeply unlikely he will be viewed like Musk in 6 months. Musk is a fairly special case as he's unhinged and unstable more than evil. If someone wanted to paint Sam with an evil stick, Zuckerberg would be a more apt comparison -- playing with something dangerous that affects all of us.
  - schiffern 4y ago
    I genuinely hope that you're right and I'm totally wrong, but my experience watching the media landscape says otherwise. It would seem I have less faith in our journalistic institutions than you. The media operates on a "nearest cliché" algorithm, and the Mad/Evil Genius cliché is so emotionally appealing here that they'll find it irresistible. Even if it's not true, they'll make it true. Don't say I didn't warn you. :)

phillryu 4y ago

When I compare the two Elon was (lucky?) to at least have a string of vision-fueled ventures that became a thing. What is Sam's history of visions? Loopt? Is Y Combinator considered in a new golden era after he took over? Did Worldcoin make any sense at all? I'm honestly hoping I'm entirely ignorant of his substance and would feel better if someone here can explain there's more to him than that… I would feel better knowing that what could be history's most disruptive tech is being led by someone with some vision for it, beyond the apocalypse that he described in 2016 that he tries not to think about too much: "The other most popular scenarios would be A.I. that attacks us and nations fighting with nukes over scarce resources.” The Shypmates looked grave. “I try not to think about it too much,” Altman said. “But I have guns, gold, potassium iodide, antibiotics, batteries, water, gas masks from the Israeli Defense Force, and a big patch of land in Big Sur I can fly to.” https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-manifest-destiny https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-ma...

schiffern 4y ago
I'm not talking about the reality of Sam and Elon. I'm putting my ear to the ground and observing the way the media is (and will) portray them. I wish that "actual reality" was all that mattered and not such low-knowledge "optics", but sadly we don't live in that world.
wetmore 4y ago
I'm with you, listening to his interview with Ezra Klein gave me the impression that he doesn't actually think that deeply about the possible impact of AI. He says it worries him, but then he seems to wave those worries away with really simplistic solutions that don't seem very tenable.
- xiphias2 4y ago
  The main question about OpenAI is this: can you have any better structure to create singularity that will happen anyways (Some people don't like the word AGI, so I just definine it by machines having wastly more intellectual power than humans). Would it be better if Google, Tesla or Microsoft / Apple / CCP or any other for profit company did it?

eternalban 4y ago

2014: https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/sam-altman-for-president/ https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/sam-altman-for-president/ 2015: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/opinion/sunday/sam-altman.html https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/12/opinion/sunday/sam-altman... 2016: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-manifest-destiny https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/sam-altmans-ma... .. That last link, Sam Altman's Manifest Destiny, is worth the read. However the last time I posted that link HN went down for an hour right afterwards. (of course correlation is not causation :/) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35334023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35334023

seydor 4y ago

No, the next Zuckerberg. The media sees (rightly) openai as a competitor medium. Although he s much more prepared to face the next Greta (Yudowksi) He has to fix his vocal fry however, it is annoying