5 ms·

Wow even the rules for bivouac seem bizarre and arbitrary. Only one night in the same place allowed... what if you set out to climb some peaks in the Alps and

Wow even the rules for bivouac seem bizarre and arbitrary. Only one night in the same place allowed... what if you set out to climb some peaks in the Alps and need to wait a few days for the right weather window, do you have to move your tent every day (and tear it down after sunrise)? Very odd and arbitrary. It almost seems like it would incentivize dangerous fast and loose/sloppy outdoor behavior. For comparison in the US dispersed camping usually just has very general rules like can't stay in an area more than 30-60 days, have to leave no trace, respect fire bans, and deal with other local restrictions like on hunting, foraging, fire wood collecting, etc.

wongarsu 4y ago
France has about four times the population density of the US, so it's somewhat easier to step on each other's toes. The idea behind the rules is simple: pick a spot where you don't bother anyone (including protected wildlife) and set up a tarp, not a camp. The latter is somewhat indirectly enforced by forcing you to move
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
> For comparison in the US dispersed camping Good luck with dispersed camping in the US east of the Mississippi (or for that matter, in Texas). It is totally reliant on federal public land, which essentially exists only in the western states. Out east [0], or in Texas, you will find yourself in a situation much more similar to the one in France (or England, or Germany, or ...) [0] and effectively, the east/west boundary is not even the Mississippi, but something like the 101st meridian. Dispersed camping in eastern Kansas is next-to-impossible.
- jeffrallen 4y ago
  And in Texas don't be surprised to be woken up looking at the muzzle of the rifle of whoever decided they own that patch.
- qbasic_forever 4y ago
  I'm in the PNW and national forests with dispersed camping are everywhere. It's glorious, I can drop everything and disappear into the woods and mountains at any moment.
- nanidin 4y ago
  Mark Twain National Forest is in Missouri and allows dispersed camping.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    I tried not to say "impossible". Yes, there are some small bits of national forest in the east (I've stayed in some recently in VA, for example), but they tend to be small and very much the exception.
- ghaff 4y ago
  >It is totally reliant on federal public land, which essentially exists only in the western states. You do have federal and state lands in the eastern US but, of course, nothing like the vast tracts out west. In any case, with the notable exception of the Appalachian Trail, there are fewer options for long-distance backpacking in the east though there are some hut systems and, subject to various rules, you can find places to camp in national forests in particular.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    State land regulations tend to differ from the federal ones. They even vary forest-to-forest. I know that some state forests in PA allow dispersed camping, some do not. Makes it all very confusing.
- dugmartin 4y ago
  Directly east of the Mississippi is the Shawnee National Forest in Southern Illinois (https://www.fs.usda.gov/shawnee https://www.fs.usda.gov/shawnee) with 289,000 acres with both primitive (free but 14 days max per camp spot) and dispersed camping allowed. I grew up in the area and camped many times with friends in high school and college by just walking a few miles down a trail and then moving off the trail a bit. I believe back then the primitive camping limit was 90 days per spot. The Rainbow People used to push that to the max when they moved through the area. I live in New England now and other than some remote state parks here in Massachusetts there isn't any primitive camping so you are right about far east of the Mississippi.

wongarsu 4y ago

France has about four times the population density of the US, so it's somewhat easier to step on each other's toes. The idea behind the rules is simple: pick a spot where you don't bother anyone (including protected wildlife) and set up a tarp, not a camp. The latter is somewhat indirectly enforced by forcing you to move

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

> For comparison in the US dispersed camping Good luck with dispersed camping in the US east of the Mississippi (or for that matter, in Texas). It is totally reliant on federal public land, which essentially exists only in the western states. Out east [0], or in Texas, you will find yourself in a situation much more similar to the one in France (or England, or Germany, or ...) [0] and effectively, the east/west boundary is not even the Mississippi, but something like the 101st meridian. Dispersed camping in eastern Kansas is next-to-impossible.

jeffrallen 4y ago
And in Texas don't be surprised to be woken up looking at the muzzle of the rifle of whoever decided they own that patch.
qbasic_forever 4y ago
I'm in the PNW and national forests with dispersed camping are everywhere. It's glorious, I can drop everything and disappear into the woods and mountains at any moment.
nanidin 4y ago
Mark Twain National Forest is in Missouri and allows dispersed camping.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  I tried not to say "impossible". Yes, there are some small bits of national forest in the east (I've stayed in some recently in VA, for example), but they tend to be small and very much the exception.
ghaff 4y ago
>It is totally reliant on federal public land, which essentially exists only in the western states. You do have federal and state lands in the eastern US but, of course, nothing like the vast tracts out west. In any case, with the notable exception of the Appalachian Trail, there are fewer options for long-distance backpacking in the east though there are some hut systems and, subject to various rules, you can find places to camp in national forests in particular.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  State land regulations tend to differ from the federal ones. They even vary forest-to-forest. I know that some state forests in PA allow dispersed camping, some do not. Makes it all very confusing.
dugmartin 4y ago
Directly east of the Mississippi is the Shawnee National Forest in Southern Illinois (https://www.fs.usda.gov/shawnee https://www.fs.usda.gov/shawnee) with 289,000 acres with both primitive (free but 14 days max per camp spot) and dispersed camping allowed. I grew up in the area and camped many times with friends in high school and college by just walking a few miles down a trail and then moving off the trail a bit. I believe back then the primitive camping limit was 90 days per spot. The Rainbow People used to push that to the max when they moved through the area. I live in New England now and other than some remote state parks here in Massachusetts there isn't any primitive camping so you are right about far east of the Mississippi.