6 ms·

I think one of the issues is that once you start designing places around driving, cars become non-optional for day to day living, whereas many places designed a

I think one of the issues is that once you start designing places around driving, cars become non-optional for day to day living, whereas many places designed around transit generally do not expect people to use transit for every single outing. For example: most car oriented American suburbs simply require a car for anything other than visiting a neighbor, whereas in a transit oriented city you might use transit to commute to work, but be able to walk to some local shops and services. I think many people who are familiar only with car dependent lifestyles make the mistake of imagining a car-free lifestyle that involves replacing all of the car trips they make one-to-one with bus or train trips, which would indeed be really cumbersome, but isn’t really how things work (at least in my experience growing up in a rural small town in the US and having lived in a couple of European cities and NYC).

kjkjadksj 4y ago
Even if you lived out in the kanto plain where the trains came before the highways, its not like people are taking the bullet train to the grocery store thats a 5 min drive with the car you already own. Few places on earth are so dense where the car is actually a consistently losing bet when you account for all your trips. I’m not even sure what building for transit rather than car would look like for a semi urban or rural area, considering the transit with the lowest capital investment, the bus, is also benefited by car oriented development like a road network with more connections between nodes. Even in the times before a car, some people had a horse or mule to essentially play the role of a car today, of an instant express bus.
- beberlei 4y ago
  You can design a citycenter to primarily benefit bike traffic and then it will be consistently faster than car travel
  - kjkjadksj 4y ago
    I’m a big fan of taking the bike around. Of course you do get those people who can’t imagine biking if theres weather. And it favors more able bodied people for the most part.
    - nayuki 4y ago
      Bike infrastructure is compatible with mobility scooters.
      - kjkjadksj 4y ago
        I’m not sure they go fast enough to keep up with bike and ebike traffic
        pharmakom 4y ago
        This is how it's done in the Netherlands and it works very well. this is not an issue.
        kjkjadksj 4y ago
        Existing bike lanes in the us need a serious overhaul. One of the standard designs runs along the dooring areas of parked cars, and right turning traffic is allowed to cross over it at intersections. The mobility scooters I’m familiar with seem to top out at a brisk walk speed on the other hand. That sort of speed differential is a recipe for danger as the roads and bike lanes are currently built in north america.
- throw0101c 4y ago
  > […] considering the transit with the lowest capital investment, the bus, is also benefited by car oriented development like a road network with more connections between nodes. 'Improving' car-oriented development has been observed to make things worse: > It is a paradox in that improvements in the road network will not reduce traffic congestion. Improvements in the road network can make congestion worse if the improvements make public transport more inconvenient or if they shift investment, causing disinvestment in the public transport system. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downs–Thomson_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downs–Thomson_paradox Improving things for non-car users can actually make things better for drivers: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k * https://fortune.com/2015/09/30/best-country-drive-waze/ https://fortune.com/2015/09/30/best-country-drive-waze/ * https://archive.ph/S4FKM https://archive.ph/S4FKM
- palata 4y ago
  I think that you need to realise that the US is not representative of the rest of the world. If you can't imagine how public transport can work in a big city, just try to visit a big city where it works (there are plenty outside the US). Seems more constructive to me than being extremely vocal about how you think it cannot exist.

kjkjadksj 4y ago

Even if you lived out in the kanto plain where the trains came before the highways, its not like people are taking the bullet train to the grocery store thats a 5 min drive with the car you already own. Few places on earth are so dense where the car is actually a consistently losing bet when you account for all your trips. I’m not even sure what building for transit rather than car would look like for a semi urban or rural area, considering the transit with the lowest capital investment, the bus, is also benefited by car oriented development like a road network with more connections between nodes. Even in the times before a car, some people had a horse or mule to essentially play the role of a car today, of an instant express bus.

beberlei 4y ago
You can design a citycenter to primarily benefit bike traffic and then it will be consistently faster than car travel
- kjkjadksj 4y ago
  I’m a big fan of taking the bike around. Of course you do get those people who can’t imagine biking if theres weather. And it favors more able bodied people for the most part.
  - nayuki 4y ago
    Bike infrastructure is compatible with mobility scooters.
    - kjkjadksj 4y ago
      I’m not sure they go fast enough to keep up with bike and ebike traffic
      - pharmakom 4y ago
        This is how it's done in the Netherlands and it works very well. this is not an issue.
        kjkjadksj 4y ago
        Existing bike lanes in the us need a serious overhaul. One of the standard designs runs along the dooring areas of parked cars, and right turning traffic is allowed to cross over it at intersections. The mobility scooters I’m familiar with seem to top out at a brisk walk speed on the other hand. That sort of speed differential is a recipe for danger as the roads and bike lanes are currently built in north america.
throw0101c 4y ago
> […] considering the transit with the lowest capital investment, the bus, is also benefited by car oriented development like a road network with more connections between nodes. 'Improving' car-oriented development has been observed to make things worse: > It is a paradox in that improvements in the road network will not reduce traffic congestion. Improvements in the road network can make congestion worse if the improvements make public transport more inconvenient or if they shift investment, causing disinvestment in the public transport system. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downs–Thomson_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downs–Thomson_paradox Improving things for non-car users can actually make things better for drivers: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8RRE2rDw4k * https://fortune.com/2015/09/30/best-country-drive-waze/ https://fortune.com/2015/09/30/best-country-drive-waze/ * https://archive.ph/S4FKM https://archive.ph/S4FKM
palata 4y ago
I think that you need to realise that the US is not representative of the rest of the world. If you can't imagine how public transport can work in a big city, just try to visit a big city where it works (there are plenty outside the US). Seems more constructive to me than being extremely vocal about how you think it cannot exist.