5 ms·
> We're going to need software engineers to be accountable for things we've done and signed off on. Only if management is held equally accountable. I've worke
by to11mtm 4y ago
> We're going to need software engineers to be accountable for things we've done and signed off on.
Only if management is held equally accountable.
I've worked at places with dedicated security teams, that acted as a 'buffer' between management and engineers. Those places tended to take security seriously.
Places -without- those, I noticed that management has a tendency to sweep security issues 'under the rug' since they impact deadlines.
- FpUser 4y ago>"We're going to need software engineers to be accountable for things we've done and signed off on." And see them evaporate from the companies that would implement something like this. Personally I would neve take a contract where I could be held legally responsible for bugs. And ultimately it is the owner who let the product out in a wild without spending a year testing billions of permutations first. Try holding them responsible and see how far can you get.
- Eisenstein 4y ago'Hard' engineers do this, though. If you want the label you should take the responsibility as well.
- FpUser 4y agoI do not give a shit about a label and have none in a software field. Just MSc in physics. I design and implement products and I have long list of clients happy with my work. This helps me find new contracts. You can call me a shrub if you wish. I still get paid.
- throw_m239339 4y ago[flagged]
- anthk 4y agoIn Europe calling yourself an enginner without having a proper title can send you to jail, because an actual Engineer has civil duties and accountability on civil causalities.
- theK 4y agoNever heard that term. Who calls themselves a "hard" engineer?
- narag 4y agoIt seems it's a play with soft-ware hard-ware, implying electric and civil engineering.
- washadjeffmad 4y agoNo one, but there are PEs. The frivolity with which "Engineer" titles were co-opted by tech has always been distasteful to me. It felt intended to claim all of the prestige with none of the rigor, accountability, or social responsibility.
- salawat 4y agoI want a software PE program so bad. I've done my best to hold myself to the same ethical standards, but if there isn't a legal bite behind negligence, you just get shoved aside.
- FpUser 4y agoUnless you work in regulated sector where lives / critical infra literally depends on your code no employer will pay for "PE level ethical standard" development. Too expensive. So your PE will be of very limited value unless you want to prohibit people without PE making a living writing software in general. But if that is what you want my take is - GFY.
- cookiengineer 4y ago> (Hardware) engineers do this, though. Broadcom exploits over the years would disagree. So would Samsung's hardware encryption. So would TPM. So would BadUSB. So would everything related to Bluetooth. Et cetera. No matter what kind of engineering you do, don't try to predict the future. Engineer towards ease of maintenance and ease of update/deployment instead.
- hedora 4y agoI don’t think that’s true. None of the engineers I have hired or worked with assume such liability directly. Usually, their firms limit liability to the price of the contract. I assume insurance does otherwise.
- BeFlatXIII 4y agoOK, now we're programmer code monkeys (but doing the exact same work as when we pretended to be engineers)
- eviks 4y agoWhat billions of permutations do you need to test when the test had already been done by someone else and brought to your issue tracker on a silver platter?
- usefulcat 4y ago> And see them evaporate from the companies that would implement something like this. It might be doable, but would also require (at a minimum) a lot more compensation to make up for the increased liability. Which gets to the heart of the problem, it’s a lot more expensive to produce higher quality software.
- wirrbel 4y agoCompany needs to be liable and introduce necessary steps so that it’s staff operates responsibly. How quick is a manager at deprioritizing quality to secure a deadline?
- rofrol 4y agoI cannot comment on threads older than 2 weeks https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10199405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10199405 So reply to this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35164665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35164665 After cloning astrovim as `~/.config/nvim`, do similar with https://github.com/AstroNvim/user_example https://github.com/AstroNvim/user_example but with button "Use this template". Then in `~/.config/nvim/user/plugins/user.lua` add ``` return { { 'Mofiqul/vscode.nvim', priority = 1000, config = function() --vim.cmd.colorscheme 'vscode' vim.o.background = 'light' local c = require('vscode.colors').get_colors() require('vscode').setup({ -- Alternatively set style in setup -- style = 'light' -- Enable transparent background transparent = true, -- Enable italic comment italic_comments = false, -- Disable nvim-tree background color disable_nvimtree_bg = true, -- Override colors (see ./lua/vscode/colors.lua) color_overrides = { vscLineNumber = '#FFFFFF', }, -- Override highlight groups (see ./lua/vscode/theme.lua) group_overrides = { -- this supports the same val table as vim.api.nvim_set_hl -- use colors from this colorscheme by requiring vscode.colors! Cursor = { fg=c.vscDarkBlue, bg=c.vscLightGreen, bold=true }, } }) require('vscode').load() end, }, } ``` and in `~/.config/nvim/lua/user/init.lua`: ``` colorscheme = "vscode", ``` Example here https://github.com/rofrol/AstroNvim--user_example https://github.com/rofrol/AstroNvim--user_example
- wirrbel 4y agoThanks
- nuc1e0n 4y agoManagement earns the big bucks because they are supposed to be accountable. If the expectation is that software engineers should be accountable and not management the money should go to the engineers instead.