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Amazingly, APL is more readable. Actually, it's even pretty intuitive. Which proves again, that restricting code to ASCII when every competent programmer (and P

by krick 4y ago

Amazingly, APL is more readable. Actually, it's even pretty intuitive. Which proves again, that restricting code to ASCII when every competent programmer (and PC-user in general) can enter almost any unicode symbols just fine is simply stupid.

scrawl 4y ago
i don't think it's stupid. i also find k more readable. 2 reasons why: - k has much fewer primitives. it's easier to remember a smaller set of operations. - k is statically parsable. APL is not. we know the program structure simply by reading the code. this is completely subjective. because you find APL more intuitive doesn't prove anything. to each their own.
habitue 4y ago
You can enter any symbol but not quickly unless you set up some hotkeys or something. There is a key on the keyboard for e. Whatever you have to do for a unicode set symbol, it's going to be harder than hitting the e key. And with regards to hotkeys, let's say you do Ctrl+alt+shift+esc+e to insert a unicode symbol, is that really better than just having a programming language where the common hotkeys are spelled out with a few ASCII characters?
- magicalhippo 4y ago
  > There is a key on the keyboard for e. Whatever you have to do for a unicode set symbol, it's going to be harder than hitting the e key. Seems https://fluxkeyboard.com/ https://fluxkeyboard.com/ might be a great fit for programming in APL and similar.
- Avshalom 4y ago
  I have the apl keyboard set to super so ∊ is exactly as hard as E.
  - habitue 4y ago
    That's the reason the apl keyboard is good!
wruza 4y ago
←⥊c⊏∾× Yeah, I’d love to discuss with colleagues how square-c works together with right double crowbar. No, thanks.
- pavlov 4y ago
  If you see the following: x = √y … would you pronounce it as “x, two parallel horizontal lines, V with a left hook, y”? The symbols have a meaning that’s unrelated to their appearance. It’s the same in APL. The “square c” is just like “V with a left hook”.
  - wruza 4y ago
    And octothorp (#) is “eight-something”. Circumflex (^) is “bent around”. Names of most characters only sound academic because we don’t know Latin and Greek too good. “√” isn’t even a natural character, it’s a graphical delineator between an index and a radicand, similar to ÷ or % forms of division. By “obelus” (sharpened stick) do you mean dot above and below a line, a percent, a dagger or just a line? Sure there will be enough confusion with ~10-30 extra symbols that aren’t even on a keyboard and may not have a single meaning or a name.
    - jazzyjackson 4y ago
      ??? The point is, within the programming language, they do have a single meaning and a a name.
draw_down 4y ago
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by krick 4y ago

scrawl 4y ago

i don't think it's stupid. i also find k more readable. 2 reasons why: - k has much fewer primitives. it's easier to remember a smaller set of operations. - k is statically parsable. APL is not. we know the program structure simply by reading the code. this is completely subjective. because you find APL more intuitive doesn't prove anything. to each their own.

habitue 4y ago

You can enter any symbol but not quickly unless you set up some hotkeys or something. There is a key on the keyboard for e. Whatever you have to do for a unicode set symbol, it's going to be harder than hitting the e key. And with regards to hotkeys, let's say you do Ctrl+alt+shift+esc+e to insert a unicode symbol, is that really better than just having a programming language where the common hotkeys are spelled out with a few ASCII characters?

magicalhippo 4y ago
> There is a key on the keyboard for e. Whatever you have to do for a unicode set symbol, it's going to be harder than hitting the e key. Seems https://fluxkeyboard.com/ https://fluxkeyboard.com/ might be a great fit for programming in APL and similar.
Avshalom 4y ago
I have the apl keyboard set to super so ∊ is exactly as hard as E.
- habitue 4y ago
  That's the reason the apl keyboard is good!

wruza 4y ago

←⥊c⊏∾× Yeah, I’d love to discuss with colleagues how square-c works together with right double crowbar. No, thanks.

pavlov 4y ago
If you see the following: x = √y … would you pronounce it as “x, two parallel horizontal lines, V with a left hook, y”? The symbols have a meaning that’s unrelated to their appearance. It’s the same in APL. The “square c” is just like “V with a left hook”.
- wruza 4y ago
  And octothorp (#) is “eight-something”. Circumflex (^) is “bent around”. Names of most characters only sound academic because we don’t know Latin and Greek too good. “√” isn’t even a natural character, it’s a graphical delineator between an index and a radicand, similar to ÷ or % forms of division. By “obelus” (sharpened stick) do you mean dot above and below a line, a percent, a dagger or just a line? Sure there will be enough confusion with ~10-30 extra symbols that aren’t even on a keyboard and may not have a single meaning or a name.
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    ??? The point is, within the programming language, they do have a single meaning and a a name.

draw_down 4y ago

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