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The bear question seemed interesting to me, so I tried a variation of it on GPT-4, with interesting results. The article has: Q: A house has windows on all th

by Strom 4y ago

The bear question seemed interesting to me, so I tried a variation of it on GPT-4, with interesting results. The article has: Q: A house has windows on all the four sides, all pointing south. A bear walks by the window. What colour is the bear? A: Not possible to determine based on the info provided. -- I tried with GPT-4: Q: A train is speeding down the track at 110 km/h. The train has five carts. Each cart has seven windows. Each window has two people watching out of them. They all see a bear walking outside. What is the likely color of the bear? A: The color of the bear in this scenario would most likely be white because this riddle is a variation of a classic question involving polar bears. Polar bears are typically found in the Arctic, where their white fur provides camouflage in the snowy environment. The information about the train, its speed, the number of carts, windows, and people watching is irrelevant to the color of the bear. Q: How many train tracks are there in the arctic? A: There are no train tracks in the Arctic. [...] -- It seems that GPT-4 is ready for that specific window based question and incorrectly thinks that my question was also looking for polar bears.

taberiand 4y ago
It answered much like a human I think. Ask a human this "riddle" and you might get a confused "what, is this the polar bear one?" Because otherwise the question is nonsense (and in the case of riddles, it doesn't matter that there are no trains in the Arctic in reality)
- Strom 4y ago
  I think most people would answer with whatever color their local bears are and won't even know about the polar bear riddle. > in the case of riddles, it doesn't matter that there are no trains in the Arctic in reality That's quite the claim. Riddles aren't constrained to reality? Well then the polar bear one can be answerd with purple too.
  - taberiand 4y ago
    No it's not quite the claim, because the question is nonsense as a riddle - if it's really about polar bears then the talk about trains and windows and speed is all irrelevant and can be discarded. Which is exactly what ChatGPT did. And if that turns the riddle into some silly gotcha then whatever, it's a bad riddle. And as you point out, the average person would also be confused - "I don't know, purple?" would be a reasonable response. Because the question is dumb in the first place
    - Strom 4y ago
      This is about whether you incorporate outside context or not. Knowing about train tracks is not that different from knowing about magnetic poles or the common habitats of various bears. All these pieces of data are fairly basic to an educated person. Both the polar bear riddle and my variation of it depend on this body of knowledge. If you don't incorporate outside context at all, then things start to get confusing quite quickly. What even is a bear? That information wasn't provided! What color is it? Well, what even is color. None were defined. See, it gets ridiculous fast. You clearly need to depend on knowledge that is not presented. Knowing about different colors or different bear habitats is common. Neither needs to be defined in the question. In the end, both of these bear riddles test whether the answerer considered more than one degree of separation. The ability to consider second order effects and beyond [1] is a sign of an intelligent person. Not every human passes. -- [1] https://fs.blog/second-order-thinking/ https://fs.blog/second-order-thinking/
- mdp2021 4y ago
  > It answered much like a human I think ... you might get It would answer like a human with bad reasoning, and that is what we do not want to emulate.
  - taberiand 4y ago
    Why not? Garbage in garbage out; there's a limit to what can be done with ambiguous information. Though perhaps it would be better for the AI to just say it's a dumb question and not bother trying to make sense of it. Which it kinda politely did.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- angryasian 4y ago
  I think you give most people too much credit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtkX3OyPF4Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtkX3OyPF4Q "recent polls have shown 1/5 of Americans can't locate the US on a world map why do you think this is" "I personally believe that us Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and the Iraq everywhere like such as and I believe that they should our education over here in the US should help the US or should help South Africa and should help the Iraq in the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future" I believe a majority of people provide answers like this.
  - taberiand 4y ago
    Oh yeah,I should specify - if you ask some educated person that is well versed in riddles and geography the question. Because true, plenty of people wouldn't have a clue what you're on about.
- adhesive_wombat 4y ago
  Pedantry mode: there are some trains in the Arctic, for example going to Bovanenkovo at about 70°N. The Yamal Peninsula even does have polar bears. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obskaya%E2%80%93Bovanenkovo_Line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obskaya%E2%80%93Bovanenkovo_Li...
13415 4y ago
I tried it on Bing Chat and it answered: The bear is white. The house must be at the North Pole, so the only place you can point to from all windows is south. Therefore, the house must be a North Pole research station and the bear is a polar bear which are white in color.
johntb86 4y ago
If you prompt it to reason step by step it gives a slightly better (though not perfect) answer: Q: A train is speeding down the track at 110 km/h. The train has five cars. Each car has seven windows. Each window has two people watching out of them. They all see a bear walking outside. What is the likely color of the bear? Reason step by step. A: To determine the likely color of the bear, we can use the information given and make some assumptions based on the habitat of different bear species. Train speed and number of cars: The train is speeding down the track at 110 km/h, and it has five cars. However, this information is not relevant to the color of the bear. Number of windows and people: Each car has seven windows, and each window has two people watching out of them. This information is also not relevant to the color of the bear. Bear's habitat: The key piece of information we need to determine the likely color of the bear is its habitat. Unfortunately, this information is not provided. However, we can make a reasonable guess based on the most common bear species and their habitats. There are three main bear species with distinct colors: a. Brown bears: Found in North America, Europe, and Asia. They can range in color from light brown to dark brown. b. Black bears: Found mainly in North America, specifically in the United States and Canada. They are typically black or brown, with some individuals being cinnamon or even blonde. c. Polar bears: Found in the Arctic regions, around the North Pole. They have white or off-white fur, which helps them blend into the snow and ice. Since we don't have information about the train's location or habitat, we can't definitively determine the color of the bear. However, if we assume the train is in a colder, Arctic region, the bear is likely to be a polar bear with white or off-white fur. If the train is in a more temperate region, the bear could be either a brown or black bear.
- abraxas 4y ago
  I think that's the perfect answer. I wouldn't be able to reason better myself.
  - mewpmewp2 4y ago
    Maybe a better answer would include "Fermi back of the napkin maths", so essentially try to figure out the quantities and geographical locations of train tracks with such setup near any potential bears and determine probabilities from there.
2-718-281-828 4y ago
I get on ChatGPT with GPT-4: > A house has windows on all the four sides, all pointing south. A bear walks by the window. What colour is the bear? If a house has windows on all four sides and they all point south, this scenario is only possible at the North Pole. At the North Pole, the only bear species present are polar bears. Polar bears have a white appearance, so the bear you see would be white in color.

by Strom 4y ago

taberiand 4y ago

It answered much like a human I think. Ask a human this "riddle" and you might get a confused "what, is this the polar bear one?" Because otherwise the question is nonsense (and in the case of riddles, it doesn't matter that there are no trains in the Arctic in reality)

Strom 4y ago
I think most people would answer with whatever color their local bears are and won't even know about the polar bear riddle. > in the case of riddles, it doesn't matter that there are no trains in the Arctic in reality That's quite the claim. Riddles aren't constrained to reality? Well then the polar bear one can be answerd with purple too.
- taberiand 4y ago
  No it's not quite the claim, because the question is nonsense as a riddle - if it's really about polar bears then the talk about trains and windows and speed is all irrelevant and can be discarded. Which is exactly what ChatGPT did. And if that turns the riddle into some silly gotcha then whatever, it's a bad riddle. And as you point out, the average person would also be confused - "I don't know, purple?" would be a reasonable response. Because the question is dumb in the first place
  - Strom 4y ago
    This is about whether you incorporate outside context or not. Knowing about train tracks is not that different from knowing about magnetic poles or the common habitats of various bears. All these pieces of data are fairly basic to an educated person. Both the polar bear riddle and my variation of it depend on this body of knowledge. If you don't incorporate outside context at all, then things start to get confusing quite quickly. What even is a bear? That information wasn't provided! What color is it? Well, what even is color. None were defined. See, it gets ridiculous fast. You clearly need to depend on knowledge that is not presented. Knowing about different colors or different bear habitats is common. Neither needs to be defined in the question. In the end, both of these bear riddles test whether the answerer considered more than one degree of separation. The ability to consider second order effects and beyond [1] is a sign of an intelligent person. Not every human passes. -- [1] https://fs.blog/second-order-thinking/ https://fs.blog/second-order-thinking/
mdp2021 4y ago
> It answered much like a human I think ... you might get It would answer like a human with bad reasoning, and that is what we do not want to emulate.
- taberiand 4y ago
  Why not? Garbage in garbage out; there's a limit to what can be done with ambiguous information. Though perhaps it would be better for the AI to just say it's a dumb question and not bother trying to make sense of it. Which it kinda politely did.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
angryasian 4y ago
I think you give most people too much credit https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtkX3OyPF4Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtkX3OyPF4Q "recent polls have shown 1/5 of Americans can't locate the US on a world map why do you think this is" "I personally believe that us Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation don't have maps and I believe that our education like such as in South Africa and the Iraq everywhere like such as and I believe that they should our education over here in the US should help the US or should help South Africa and should help the Iraq in the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future" I believe a majority of people provide answers like this.
- taberiand 4y ago
  Oh yeah,I should specify - if you ask some educated person that is well versed in riddles and geography the question. Because true, plenty of people wouldn't have a clue what you're on about.
adhesive_wombat 4y ago
Pedantry mode: there are some trains in the Arctic, for example going to Bovanenkovo at about 70°N. The Yamal Peninsula even does have polar bears. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obskaya%E2%80%93Bovanenkovo_Line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obskaya%E2%80%93Bovanenkovo_Li...

13415 4y ago

I tried it on Bing Chat and it answered: The bear is white. The house must be at the North Pole, so the only place you can point to from all windows is south. Therefore, the house must be a North Pole research station and the bear is a polar bear which are white in color.

johntb86 4y ago

If you prompt it to reason step by step it gives a slightly better (though not perfect) answer: Q: A train is speeding down the track at 110 km/h. The train has five cars. Each car has seven windows. Each window has two people watching out of them. They all see a bear walking outside. What is the likely color of the bear? Reason step by step. A: To determine the likely color of the bear, we can use the information given and make some assumptions based on the habitat of different bear species. Train speed and number of cars: The train is speeding down the track at 110 km/h, and it has five cars. However, this information is not relevant to the color of the bear. Number of windows and people: Each car has seven windows, and each window has two people watching out of them. This information is also not relevant to the color of the bear. Bear's habitat: The key piece of information we need to determine the likely color of the bear is its habitat. Unfortunately, this information is not provided. However, we can make a reasonable guess based on the most common bear species and their habitats. There are three main bear species with distinct colors: a. Brown bears: Found in North America, Europe, and Asia. They can range in color from light brown to dark brown. b. Black bears: Found mainly in North America, specifically in the United States and Canada. They are typically black or brown, with some individuals being cinnamon or even blonde. c. Polar bears: Found in the Arctic regions, around the North Pole. They have white or off-white fur, which helps them blend into the snow and ice. Since we don't have information about the train's location or habitat, we can't definitively determine the color of the bear. However, if we assume the train is in a colder, Arctic region, the bear is likely to be a polar bear with white or off-white fur. If the train is in a more temperate region, the bear could be either a brown or black bear.

abraxas 4y ago
I think that's the perfect answer. I wouldn't be able to reason better myself.
- mewpmewp2 4y ago
  Maybe a better answer would include "Fermi back of the napkin maths", so essentially try to figure out the quantities and geographical locations of train tracks with such setup near any potential bears and determine probabilities from there.

2-718-281-828 4y ago

I get on ChatGPT with GPT-4: > A house has windows on all the four sides, all pointing south. A bear walks by the window. What colour is the bear? If a house has windows on all four sides and they all point south, this scenario is only possible at the North Pole. At the North Pole, the only bear species present are polar bears. Polar bears have a white appearance, so the bear you see would be white in color.