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NYC has not thought this through. You still need gas for heat and for hot water. NYC is cold, heat pump versions of those work, but not very well (especially n

by ars 4y ago

NYC has not thought this through. You still need gas for heat and for hot water. NYC is cold, heat pump versions of those work, but not very well (especially not well for hot water). And for apartment centralized heat and hot water? That would be really hard - these units are much later than the centralized ones they replace. The amount of electricity it would take to do this though.... I hope they plan for this to take decades, because that's what it would take for them to upgrade their wires.

kibwen 4y ago
80% of buildings in NYC are heated by steam, not gas, generated by a boiler in the basement. I assume most of those boilers are themselves gas-burning, but I also assume that any refit to these buildings would just replace the gas-powered boiler with an electric one. When it comes to boiling water, induction stoves are already more efficient than gas stoves, so it doesn't seem infeasible.
- jakevoytko 4y ago
  My NYC co-op is going through this now. All of your guesses are basically right. We're having separate systems installed for replacing in-unit hot water and in-unit heating and cooling. I believe the new electric hot water system is being installed in the basement and the condensers for the in-unit control panels are being installed on the roof and routed through the pipes used by our old radiator system. Pros: units can control their own heat and will no longer need in-window A/C units. Cons: it's really expensive, even for a building with good finances and access to reasonable financing options. We're only doing this because our boiler is probably a few years away from failing already (it's well over 50 years old), and we're super close to the building size threshold where we would be fined for not complying with the law (so any adjustments to how they calculate building size or dropping the law's fine floor would certainly push us over).
- ars 4y ago
  > would just replace the gas-powered boiler with an electric one With resistive heat? That would be a horrible idea. And creating steam with a heat pump would be less efficient than gas. So like I said, they have not thought it through.
  - oblio 4y ago
    Induction... Look it up.
    - CyberDildonics 4y ago
      You realize induction is still resistive heat right? It's just directly resistive in the magnetic metal, usually an iron pan on the stove.
      - oblio 4y ago
        That's not what the grandparent comment meant, if they're complaining about efficiency.
        CyberDildonics 4y ago
        Some other comment mentioned induction, but that doesn't make sense in the context of heating a house. Your parent comment said resistive heating is terrible for heating houses, which it is. You replied Induction... Look it up. Induction is still resistive heating and doesn't create more heat for the same electricity, so what are you talking about?
        oblio 4y ago
        The entire discussion is about boilers and steam... This entire subthread is useless when you missed the original comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35393157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35393157
        CyberDildonics 4y ago
        I already mentioned that comment when I said one mentioned inductive heating. What is it that you are trying to say? Inductive heating has no benefit over regular resistive electrical heating for heating a house, because it is already resistive heating. For a stove it just transfers the resistive heating to the pan directly instead of using an iron coil burner first. All you did was make a sarcastic comment but there is no context where it makes sense and it's even more bizarre that you think other comments help it make sense.
tootie 4y ago
NYC has only banned stoves thus far and only for new construction. Also NYC isn't that cold. We had nearly zero snow this winter. Doing nothing isn't an option right now.

by ars 4y ago

kibwen 4y ago

80% of buildings in NYC are heated by steam, not gas, generated by a boiler in the basement. I assume most of those boilers are themselves gas-burning, but I also assume that any refit to these buildings would just replace the gas-powered boiler with an electric one. When it comes to boiling water, induction stoves are already more efficient than gas stoves, so it doesn't seem infeasible.

jakevoytko 4y ago
My NYC co-op is going through this now. All of your guesses are basically right. We're having separate systems installed for replacing in-unit hot water and in-unit heating and cooling. I believe the new electric hot water system is being installed in the basement and the condensers for the in-unit control panels are being installed on the roof and routed through the pipes used by our old radiator system. Pros: units can control their own heat and will no longer need in-window A/C units. Cons: it's really expensive, even for a building with good finances and access to reasonable financing options. We're only doing this because our boiler is probably a few years away from failing already (it's well over 50 years old), and we're super close to the building size threshold where we would be fined for not complying with the law (so any adjustments to how they calculate building size or dropping the law's fine floor would certainly push us over).
ars 4y ago
> would just replace the gas-powered boiler with an electric one With resistive heat? That would be a horrible idea. And creating steam with a heat pump would be less efficient than gas. So like I said, they have not thought it through.
- oblio 4y ago
  Induction... Look it up.
  - CyberDildonics 4y ago
    You realize induction is still resistive heat right? It's just directly resistive in the magnetic metal, usually an iron pan on the stove.
    - oblio 4y ago
      That's not what the grandparent comment meant, if they're complaining about efficiency.
      - CyberDildonics 4y ago
        Some other comment mentioned induction, but that doesn't make sense in the context of heating a house. Your parent comment said resistive heating is terrible for heating houses, which it is. You replied Induction... Look it up. Induction is still resistive heating and doesn't create more heat for the same electricity, so what are you talking about?
        oblio 4y ago
        The entire discussion is about boilers and steam... This entire subthread is useless when you missed the original comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35393157 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35393157
        CyberDildonics 4y ago
        I already mentioned that comment when I said one mentioned inductive heating. What is it that you are trying to say? Inductive heating has no benefit over regular resistive electrical heating for heating a house, because it is already resistive heating. For a stove it just transfers the resistive heating to the pan directly instead of using an iron coil burner first. All you did was make a sarcastic comment but there is no context where it makes sense and it's even more bizarre that you think other comments help it make sense.

tootie 4y ago

NYC has only banned stoves thus far and only for new construction. Also NYC isn't that cold. We had nearly zero snow this winter. Doing nothing isn't an option right now.