6 ms·

A Black DEI Director Canceled by DEI

53 points by bkohlmann 4y ago

kylecazar 4y ago
Sounds like they did her a favor. The claims about 'White Supremacy Culture' alone are asinine (sense of urgency?). Why anybody would want to participate in academia as an administrator is beyond me. It just seems so toxic and petty.
- recursivedoubts 4y ago
  “The reason that university politics is so vicious is because stakes are so small”
- owlglass 4y ago
  Money. Where else are likely to make hundreds of thousands of dollars with a PhD in comparative literature?
- tptacek 4y ago
  They are asinine. They've become a shibboleth for detecting DEI-types who are unengaged with theory and have hopped on the fad --- the Robin DiAngelists, if you will. You don't have to like, appreciate, or respect DEI in any way to acknowledge that unironically showing slides suggesting that literacy is a white virtue is disqualifying, and that most social justice thinkers, including Okun herself, agree with that. Okun's website attempts to clarify all of this; for instance, the page expanding on "worship of the written word" explains that it's a reaction to the idea that anything not written down according to formal standards is worthless. That's not a crazy DEI idea, so much so that it's part of the plot of the Terry Gilliam movie Brazil. But people just want fortune cookies to memorize and repeat, and it is somewhat on people like Okun for providing those fortunes and only 20 years later clarifying them. And, of course, De Anza wasn't at all engaged with Okun's actual thoughts; it was using them to prevent managers from setting agendas for meetings. Again: everybody involved in this story is a crank.
pbsladek 4y ago
Good read. Clearly lays out how toxic it can get on the extreme end of the left. Yikes!
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  It is high time for the traditional - working class - left to distance itself from identity politics in all of its forms if it wants to remain a viable political ideology. While I do not consider myself to be on the "left" or "right" I see the value in having both "left-wing" as well as "right-wing" thought sparring it out in the public discourse in a search for something we can more or less agree on. If done right this ends up with something resembling the Dutch or Swedish system in the 80's en 90's, both of which I'm familiar with. Not that these systems were in any way perfect but they have shown resilience through many decades of change while offering a high standard of living for the vast majority of inhabitants. The Dutch "right" - representing employers, farmers and some of the more conservative regions in the country could interact with the "left" - representing labour unions, non-unionised workers and a ragtag assembly of activist organisations - and come to compromises which were workable. While the debates were often intense and allegations of this and that were thrown by "both" sides they managed to come to agreements which were acceptable by most of the involved. This is not possible with the identitarian left. There is no compromising with those who declaim that anything but their own shining path is some form of -ism or -phobia leading to harm and genocide. They do not want to compromise, instead they insist on dictating the terms, placing themselves above all other interests because they consider themselves to be morally superior. So, lefties, please... clean up in your own ranks for the good of all. Excise those who put themselves over others with claims of moral superiority, show them a mirror and tell them they to clean up their act - shape up or ship out. If you don't they will destroy your chances of ever achieving any of your goals, subjecting you to a continuous struggle for dominance over imagined oppressors both inside as well as outside of your own movements.
cmh89 4y ago
I (white male) used to try and be active as an ally in regards to DEI. I work for a large public agency. I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole these days. This vein of 'antiracism' is poison because it really is absurd. I've personally seen people call 'agendas' and 'goals' white supremacy. Hell, I had to listen to someone talk about how 'clock time' is a tool invented by white supremacists. I've had friends fall down the rabbit whole into this nonsense, where any shortcoming in themselves is just white supremacist culture trying to force things on them. It's really sad. The most insidious thing is how well it has a built-in defense mechanism. By co-opting terms like 'anti-racist' and defining them under a narrow socio-political view point, it creates a complication for people to talk about their world view. I consider myself 'anti-racist' because I hate racists, but am I 'Anti-racist' in Kemba's viewpoint? No And stop trying to make Latinx a thing, its not going to happen and is super cringy.
- bkuehl 4y ago
  I don't get Latinx term at all. And hardly ever see it used by native speakers. It's like they're telling Spanish speakers their language is inherently bad because it's gendered. It almost comes off as a "white savior" thing where someone felt like they had to fix it. For context, I grew up bilingual.
- yucky 4y ago
  It's nice that you finally see it, but it was never logical which raises the question of why anybody ever took it seriously.
  - cmh89 4y ago
    Finally see what? DEI is extremely important. It's just also a space that can be dominated by some absolutely dumb people.
    - yucky 4y ago
      DEI is a grift, supported only by people who are ok with the idea of racial discrimination. The term "antiracist" is laughable too, since by definition it's an ideology that requires you to actively judge people based on the color of their skin. Don't take it from me either, you can see it in the words of Ibram X. Kendi who is perhaps the most well known antiracist grifter: “The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.” ~Ibram X. Kendi That just about sums up DEI and antiracist grifting in general.
tptacek 4y ago
This is a surpassingly stupid story in which literally everyone involved looks like a crank: an existing DEI practice at a community college that was unironically still using Tema Okun's "White Supremacy Culture" slides, the ones that ascribe literacy and punctuality to whiteness, and an incoming DEI dean who decided to operate as an anti-woke crusader, up to and including repping FAIR, a conservative anti-CRT activist organization with a prominent side hustle in making sure that middle schools don't allow any students to prefer pronouns.
- tzs 4y ago
  Okun says people are using that work wrong. Here’s a recent interview about that: https://theintercept.com/2023/02/03/deconstructed-tema-okun-white-supremacy/ https://theintercept.com/2023/02/03/deconstructed-tema-okun-...
  - tptacek 4y ago
    Right, and for whatever it's worth, most sane DEI-type people have disavowed the interpretation used by slides like the one in this story. Everybody involved in this story looks bad. There's a sort of fascinating sociological phenomenon here where stories like this have so much valence for so many ideologies, confirm so many different priors, that people glom onto them without realizing the side they're taking in it is also terrible.
- mckern 4y ago
  Not sure how the author looks like a crank here. If treating people with patience and encouraging discourse in the face of a barrage of sabotage and false accusations is anti-woke, well, you might as well call sanity “insane”. As for FAIR, I’m not sure what evidence you have that it’s conservative. The board members consists of liberals like Jonathan Haidt, John McWhorter, and Steven Pinker. I don’t see anything wrong with operating from a premise that doesn’t rely on CRT either, since it’s really pure rhetoric and scant on evidence, and clearly the cause of the illiberalism and nasty behaviour that the author is calling out in her essay. Consequently, I doubt you’re presenting their “prominent side hustle” in good faith as well. Your summary is so disingenuous, it’s a great pity that it’s the top most comment. You miss the crux of the essay, which is sounding the alarm that the people who you described as “unironically still using Tema Okun’s…”, are the ones running the show in academic institutions. For anyone reading this comment, I’d urge you to read the source directly, the quality of HN comments for such topic isn’t that great.

53 points by bkohlmann 4y ago

Sounds like they did her a favor. The claims about 'White Supremacy Culture' alone are asinine (sense of urgency?). Why anybody would want to participate in academia as an administrator is beyond me. It just seems so toxic and petty.

recursivedoubts 4y ago
“The reason that university politics is so vicious is because stakes are so small”
owlglass 4y ago
Money. Where else are likely to make hundreds of thousands of dollars with a PhD in comparative literature?
tptacek 4y ago
They are asinine. They've become a shibboleth for detecting DEI-types who are unengaged with theory and have hopped on the fad --- the Robin DiAngelists, if you will. You don't have to like, appreciate, or respect DEI in any way to acknowledge that unironically showing slides suggesting that literacy is a white virtue is disqualifying, and that most social justice thinkers, including Okun herself, agree with that. Okun's website attempts to clarify all of this; for instance, the page expanding on "worship of the written word" explains that it's a reaction to the idea that anything not written down according to formal standards is worthless. That's not a crazy DEI idea, so much so that it's part of the plot of the Terry Gilliam movie Brazil. But people just want fortune cookies to memorize and repeat, and it is somewhat on people like Okun for providing those fortunes and only 20 years later clarifying them. And, of course, De Anza wasn't at all engaged with Okun's actual thoughts; it was using them to prevent managers from setting agendas for meetings. Again: everybody involved in this story is a crank.

pbsladek 4y ago

Good read. Clearly lays out how toxic it can get on the extreme end of the left. Yikes!

the_third_wave 4y ago
It is high time for the traditional - working class - left to distance itself from identity politics in all of its forms if it wants to remain a viable political ideology. While I do not consider myself to be on the "left" or "right" I see the value in having both "left-wing" as well as "right-wing" thought sparring it out in the public discourse in a search for something we can more or less agree on. If done right this ends up with something resembling the Dutch or Swedish system in the 80's en 90's, both of which I'm familiar with. Not that these systems were in any way perfect but they have shown resilience through many decades of change while offering a high standard of living for the vast majority of inhabitants. The Dutch "right" - representing employers, farmers and some of the more conservative regions in the country could interact with the "left" - representing labour unions, non-unionised workers and a ragtag assembly of activist organisations - and come to compromises which were workable. While the debates were often intense and allegations of this and that were thrown by "both" sides they managed to come to agreements which were acceptable by most of the involved. This is not possible with the identitarian left. There is no compromising with those who declaim that anything but their own shining path is some form of -ism or -phobia leading to harm and genocide. They do not want to compromise, instead they insist on dictating the terms, placing themselves above all other interests because they consider themselves to be morally superior. So, lefties, please... clean up in your own ranks for the good of all. Excise those who put themselves over others with claims of moral superiority, show them a mirror and tell them they to clean up their act - shape up or ship out. If you don't they will destroy your chances of ever achieving any of your goals, subjecting you to a continuous struggle for dominance over imagined oppressors both inside as well as outside of your own movements.

cmh89 4y ago

I (white male) used to try and be active as an ally in regards to DEI. I work for a large public agency. I wouldn't touch it with a ten-foot pole these days. This vein of 'antiracism' is poison because it really is absurd. I've personally seen people call 'agendas' and 'goals' white supremacy. Hell, I had to listen to someone talk about how 'clock time' is a tool invented by white supremacists. I've had friends fall down the rabbit whole into this nonsense, where any shortcoming in themselves is just white supremacist culture trying to force things on them. It's really sad. The most insidious thing is how well it has a built-in defense mechanism. By co-opting terms like 'anti-racist' and defining them under a narrow socio-political view point, it creates a complication for people to talk about their world view. I consider myself 'anti-racist' because I hate racists, but am I 'Anti-racist' in Kemba's viewpoint? No And stop trying to make Latinx a thing, its not going to happen and is super cringy.

bkuehl 4y ago
I don't get Latinx term at all. And hardly ever see it used by native speakers. It's like they're telling Spanish speakers their language is inherently bad because it's gendered. It almost comes off as a "white savior" thing where someone felt like they had to fix it. For context, I grew up bilingual.
yucky 4y ago
It's nice that you finally see it, but it was never logical which raises the question of why anybody ever took it seriously.
- cmh89 4y ago
  Finally see what? DEI is extremely important. It's just also a space that can be dominated by some absolutely dumb people.
  - yucky 4y ago
    DEI is a grift, supported only by people who are ok with the idea of racial discrimination. The term "antiracist" is laughable too, since by definition it's an ideology that requires you to actively judge people based on the color of their skin. Don't take it from me either, you can see it in the words of Ibram X. Kendi who is perhaps the most well known antiracist grifter: “The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.” ~Ibram X. Kendi That just about sums up DEI and antiracist grifting in general.

tptacek 4y ago

This is a surpassingly stupid story in which literally everyone involved looks like a crank: an existing DEI practice at a community college that was unironically still using Tema Okun's "White Supremacy Culture" slides, the ones that ascribe literacy and punctuality to whiteness, and an incoming DEI dean who decided to operate as an anti-woke crusader, up to and including repping FAIR, a conservative anti-CRT activist organization with a prominent side hustle in making sure that middle schools don't allow any students to prefer pronouns.

tzs 4y ago
Okun says people are using that work wrong. Here’s a recent interview about that: https://theintercept.com/2023/02/03/deconstructed-tema-okun-white-supremacy/ https://theintercept.com/2023/02/03/deconstructed-tema-okun-...
- tptacek 4y ago
  Right, and for whatever it's worth, most sane DEI-type people have disavowed the interpretation used by slides like the one in this story. Everybody involved in this story looks bad. There's a sort of fascinating sociological phenomenon here where stories like this have so much valence for so many ideologies, confirm so many different priors, that people glom onto them without realizing the side they're taking in it is also terrible.
mckern 4y ago
Not sure how the author looks like a crank here. If treating people with patience and encouraging discourse in the face of a barrage of sabotage and false accusations is anti-woke, well, you might as well call sanity “insane”. As for FAIR, I’m not sure what evidence you have that it’s conservative. The board members consists of liberals like Jonathan Haidt, John McWhorter, and Steven Pinker. I don’t see anything wrong with operating from a premise that doesn’t rely on CRT either, since it’s really pure rhetoric and scant on evidence, and clearly the cause of the illiberalism and nasty behaviour that the author is calling out in her essay. Consequently, I doubt you’re presenting their “prominent side hustle” in good faith as well. Your summary is so disingenuous, it’s a great pity that it’s the top most comment. You miss the crux of the essay, which is sounding the alarm that the people who you described as “unironically still using Tema Okun’s…”, are the ones running the show in academic institutions. For anyone reading this comment, I’d urge you to read the source directly, the quality of HN comments for such topic isn’t that great.