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I'm not sure what use case is a speculative pyramid scheme like crypto, where there is no intrinsic value at all. It is a morally repugnant gambling speculativ

I'm not sure what use case is a speculative pyramid scheme like crypto, where there is no intrinsic value at all. It is a morally repugnant gambling speculative vice which destroys lives and is even worse than fiat. Not to mention Bitcoin and the like burning the planet trying to solve useless puzzles.

yieldcrv 4y ago
speculation is a use case, you’re grasping for a distinction that’s not found, and if you find it you’ll simultaneously be talking about 99% of all transactional activity in the world economy. yes, gambling is a big industry too, why do you keep naming use cases that have validation of their value?
- colesantiago 4y ago
  What can you do with speculation other than causing people to lose their life savings? What good is there in a so called currency based on fictitious tokens created out of thin air and backed by completely nothing and adding nothing useful to society? Even Nvidia agrees: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/26/cryptocurrencies-add-nothing-useful-to-society-nvidia-chatbots-processing-crypto-mining https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/26/cryptocur... At least gambling is regulated where as crypto is a unregulated decentralised wild west where there is no protections whatsoever. Where is the use case in people losing money in a pyramid scheme using crypto tokens?
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    I'm not convinced you know what you're trying to ask. What do you mean by "use case" other than the reasons for which people want something? The person you're responding to said that people want it so they can speculate and gamble with it. You can dislike these vices all you want but you're seeming to speak to some objectivity which you haven't done much to explain.
    - colesantiago 4y ago
      We both know the whole point of the crypto use case is to become an alternative or a replacement to fiat, to which it isn't and cannot be. Speculation is not a legitimate use case for something that aims to become a currency. If I am trying to buy a loaf of bread with a crypto token and the price plummets and fluctuates wildly for no reason that is backed by nothing, it is not useful at all. You can try and justify crypto all you want, However and objectively speaking, there are far too many pyramid schemes, far too many ponzi schemes, scams, rugpulls and ransomware crypto payments, unregistered ICOs that crypto is harbouring to even take seriously after 15 years of its existence. I'm glad the crackdown is happening.
      - ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 4y ago
        Are you older than 15?
        colesantiago 4y ago
        Are you struggling to make a point here? You could just say a relevant point rather than failing to make a point like crypto.
        ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 4y ago
        It was a genuine question, and from your response I'm guessing the answer is "no". If you're wondering what provoked the question, it was the crying about "unregistered" ICOs - at that point it was clear that you're either a child or an adult with a child-like need for external authority to make you feel safe. Pro-tip going forward in life: try not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
        colesantiago 4y ago
        It's an irrelevant question and doesn't change my point at all. In fact crypto bros like yourself are the ones asking for regulatory clarity, to which it is you that is in need of an external authority to save you from yourselves. Because crypto and it's industry clearly cannot save itself, that's why it needs regulation. With or without regulation crypto will collapse anyway.
super256 4y ago
> I'm not sure what use case is a speculative pyramid scheme like crypto, where there is no intrinsic value at all. Modern currencies like USD, EUR, JPY etc. don't have intrinsic value either. > It is a morally repugnant gambling speculative vice which destroys lives and is even worse than fiat. We should ban speculative buying of comics, gaming skins, Pokémon cards and, of course, gambling in casinos worldwide too. Also, the gambling on Robinhood is morally repugnant too, as grown up adults can't be trusted to manage their money. > Not to mention Bitcoin and the like burning the planet trying to solve useless puzzles. The value in solving the puzzles is securing the network (no other network is as secure as Bitcoin, see [1]). Gold mining uses the same energy amount as BTC. [2] Only 8% of Gold of the gold dug up is used for productive means by the industry. The rest is bought by speculators, jewelries and central banks because it's shiny. [3] [1] https://howmanyconfs.com/ https://howmanyconfs.com/ [2] https://ccaf.io/cbeci/index https://ccaf.io/cbeci/index [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-industry-sector-share/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-in...
- didibus 4y ago
  > Modern currencies like USD, EUR, JPY etc. don't have intrinsic value either. Arguably, they are like ownership into the country's GDP and military influence no?
  - super256 4y ago
    > Arguably, they are like ownership into the country's GDP and military influence no? Well, yes, but that doesn't give you intrinsic value. If you are long a currency, you make a bet that other people have confidence in the government's ability to enforce the currency and keep economic output high enough to keep the value stable. However, if the government collapses, the money becomes completely worthless. There is no commodity, product, or service backing it up.
Atlas22 4y ago
Education is speculative gambling that teaching the student will amount to them increasing productivity enough to be worth the resources (time, money, supplies) spent educating them. Driving is speculative gambling that reaching your destination faster will be more profitable than the cost of the vehicle, wear and tear, gas/electricity, cost associated with risk of car crash. Eating is speculative gambling that the one eating will provide more value in some way than the value of the food and water they consume.
- colesantiago 4y ago
  this laughable line of argument isn't even worth a debate, we both know that education, driving and eating aren't pyramid/ponzi schemes.
  - Atlas22 4y ago
    Yeah, your right, there is no point in arguing with someone who just labels everything as laughable but cant back up anything they say.
    - colesantiago 4y ago
      You only have to look here to see why $12 billion worth of hard earned cash has been wasted to crypto on scams, hacks, rugpulls and just straight up fraud. https://web3isgoinggreat.com/ https://web3isgoinggreat.com/ > Education is speculative gambling... Driving is speculative gambling...Eating is speculative gambling... I also hope and assume you have reputable evidence of all three of these in the next hour or two (!)

yieldcrv 4y ago

speculation is a use case, you’re grasping for a distinction that’s not found, and if you find it you’ll simultaneously be talking about 99% of all transactional activity in the world economy. yes, gambling is a big industry too, why do you keep naming use cases that have validation of their value?

colesantiago 4y ago
What can you do with speculation other than causing people to lose their life savings? What good is there in a so called currency based on fictitious tokens created out of thin air and backed by completely nothing and adding nothing useful to society? Even Nvidia agrees: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/26/cryptocurrencies-add-nothing-useful-to-society-nvidia-chatbots-processing-crypto-mining https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/mar/26/cryptocur... At least gambling is regulated where as crypto is a unregulated decentralised wild west where there is no protections whatsoever. Where is the use case in people losing money in a pyramid scheme using crypto tokens?
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
  I'm not convinced you know what you're trying to ask. What do you mean by "use case" other than the reasons for which people want something? The person you're responding to said that people want it so they can speculate and gamble with it. You can dislike these vices all you want but you're seeming to speak to some objectivity which you haven't done much to explain.
  - colesantiago 4y ago
    We both know the whole point of the crypto use case is to become an alternative or a replacement to fiat, to which it isn't and cannot be. Speculation is not a legitimate use case for something that aims to become a currency. If I am trying to buy a loaf of bread with a crypto token and the price plummets and fluctuates wildly for no reason that is backed by nothing, it is not useful at all. You can try and justify crypto all you want, However and objectively speaking, there are far too many pyramid schemes, far too many ponzi schemes, scams, rugpulls and ransomware crypto payments, unregistered ICOs that crypto is harbouring to even take seriously after 15 years of its existence. I'm glad the crackdown is happening.
    - ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 4y ago
      Are you older than 15?
      - colesantiago 4y ago
        Are you struggling to make a point here? You could just say a relevant point rather than failing to make a point like crypto.
        ZGDUwpqEWpUZ 4y ago
        It was a genuine question, and from your response I'm guessing the answer is "no". If you're wondering what provoked the question, it was the crying about "unregistered" ICOs - at that point it was clear that you're either a child or an adult with a child-like need for external authority to make you feel safe. Pro-tip going forward in life: try not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
        colesantiago 4y ago
        It's an irrelevant question and doesn't change my point at all. In fact crypto bros like yourself are the ones asking for regulatory clarity, to which it is you that is in need of an external authority to save you from yourselves. Because crypto and it's industry clearly cannot save itself, that's why it needs regulation. With or without regulation crypto will collapse anyway.

super256 4y ago

> I'm not sure what use case is a speculative pyramid scheme like crypto, where there is no intrinsic value at all. Modern currencies like USD, EUR, JPY etc. don't have intrinsic value either. > It is a morally repugnant gambling speculative vice which destroys lives and is even worse than fiat. We should ban speculative buying of comics, gaming skins, Pokémon cards and, of course, gambling in casinos worldwide too. Also, the gambling on Robinhood is morally repugnant too, as grown up adults can't be trusted to manage their money. > Not to mention Bitcoin and the like burning the planet trying to solve useless puzzles. The value in solving the puzzles is securing the network (no other network is as secure as Bitcoin, see [1]). Gold mining uses the same energy amount as BTC. [2] Only 8% of Gold of the gold dug up is used for productive means by the industry. The rest is bought by speculators, jewelries and central banks because it's shiny. [3] [1] https://howmanyconfs.com/ https://howmanyconfs.com/ [2] https://ccaf.io/cbeci/index https://ccaf.io/cbeci/index [3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-industry-sector-share/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/299609/gold-demand-by-in...

didibus 4y ago
> Modern currencies like USD, EUR, JPY etc. don't have intrinsic value either. Arguably, they are like ownership into the country's GDP and military influence no?
- super256 4y ago
  > Arguably, they are like ownership into the country's GDP and military influence no? Well, yes, but that doesn't give you intrinsic value. If you are long a currency, you make a bet that other people have confidence in the government's ability to enforce the currency and keep economic output high enough to keep the value stable. However, if the government collapses, the money becomes completely worthless. There is no commodity, product, or service backing it up.

Atlas22 4y ago

Education is speculative gambling that teaching the student will amount to them increasing productivity enough to be worth the resources (time, money, supplies) spent educating them. Driving is speculative gambling that reaching your destination faster will be more profitable than the cost of the vehicle, wear and tear, gas/electricity, cost associated with risk of car crash. Eating is speculative gambling that the one eating will provide more value in some way than the value of the food and water they consume.

colesantiago 4y ago
this laughable line of argument isn't even worth a debate, we both know that education, driving and eating aren't pyramid/ponzi schemes.
- Atlas22 4y ago
  Yeah, your right, there is no point in arguing with someone who just labels everything as laughable but cant back up anything they say.
  - colesantiago 4y ago
    You only have to look here to see why $12 billion worth of hard earned cash has been wasted to crypto on scams, hacks, rugpulls and just straight up fraud. https://web3isgoinggreat.com/ https://web3isgoinggreat.com/ > Education is speculative gambling... Driving is speculative gambling...Eating is speculative gambling... I also hope and assume you have reputable evidence of all three of these in the next hour or two (!)