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I did read that last sentence of yours and tried to think about your overall message. The part where you wrote about markets effectively translating selfish be

I did read that last sentence of yours and tried to think about your overall message. The part where you wrote about markets effectively translating selfish behavior into the greater good seemed to indicate that you thought the parts where markets aren't working are a side issue. I don't think everyone pursuing their own self interest is at all a good thing when done on a global scale. I think the features of markets lead people like myself into knowingly buying products made by oppressed labor. It leads me to buy gas from companies that pollute on a grand scale in Nigeria and Ecuador. I think the self-interest aspect of markets is far more destructive than the positives are positive. I gathered from what you wrote that you think the opposite. Hence I tried to briefly explain why all of pursuing our self-interest is a bad thing, overall.

philwelch 15y ago
> I don't think everyone pursuing their own self interest is at all a good thing when done on a global scale. I think that's irrelevant. Humans have whatever natural inclinations they have. Propose solutions that work with them or shut up; misanthropically blaming human nature isn't constructive in the slightest. Frankly, this is the same kind of unenlightened thinking that e.g. the Catholic Church applies to questions of public health. The Church thinks that the solution to AIDS is for people not to fuck; enlightened thinking realizes that people do fuck and proposes a system of preventative health care, including condoms, that addresses that reality. It's funny to see the selfsame leftists who condemn the Catholic Church for trying to keep condoms out of Africa apply the same basic fallacy to economics. If we just stop people from being self-interested....
- yequalsx 15y ago
  Your tone is inappropriate. There is no need for me to shut up. Step 1 of fixing a problem is to understand the nature of the problem. If one thinks that selfishness is a good thing that leads to positive outcomes then the same destructive path we are on will continue. Recognition that everyone acting in their self-interest does not collectively yield good results would be a giant step forward into solving some of the pressing problems our species has.
  - philwelch 15y ago
    You're still not understanding my point; in fact, you've got it totally backwards. If people's actual behavior doesn't produce good results in the current political and economic system, change the system until it does. Don't try and change human nature, that's just ridiculous. If people are going to be self-interested, treat that as a requirement and build a system that gets the most common good out of that. You'll get more that way than by wringing your hands about individual sinfulness.

philwelch 15y ago

> I don't think everyone pursuing their own self interest is at all a good thing when done on a global scale. I think that's irrelevant. Humans have whatever natural inclinations they have. Propose solutions that work with them or shut up; misanthropically blaming human nature isn't constructive in the slightest. Frankly, this is the same kind of unenlightened thinking that e.g. the Catholic Church applies to questions of public health. The Church thinks that the solution to AIDS is for people not to fuck; enlightened thinking realizes that people do fuck and proposes a system of preventative health care, including condoms, that addresses that reality. It's funny to see the selfsame leftists who condemn the Catholic Church for trying to keep condoms out of Africa apply the same basic fallacy to economics. If we just stop people from being self-interested....

yequalsx 15y ago
Your tone is inappropriate. There is no need for me to shut up. Step 1 of fixing a problem is to understand the nature of the problem. If one thinks that selfishness is a good thing that leads to positive outcomes then the same destructive path we are on will continue. Recognition that everyone acting in their self-interest does not collectively yield good results would be a giant step forward into solving some of the pressing problems our species has.
- philwelch 15y ago
  You're still not understanding my point; in fact, you've got it totally backwards. If people's actual behavior doesn't produce good results in the current political and economic system, change the system until it does. Don't try and change human nature, that's just ridiculous. If people are going to be self-interested, treat that as a requirement and build a system that gets the most common good out of that. You'll get more that way than by wringing your hands about individual sinfulness.