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> And from what I perceive, there's now cookie banners everywhere while my personal data is still going into opaque silos. Those cookie banners are either non-

> And from what I perceive, there's now cookie banners everywhere while my personal data is still going into opaque silos. Those cookie banners are either non-compliant with the regulations or meaningless. Why people add them is anyones guess.

nforgerit 4y ago
Yeah. Mozilla with their ad-network visualization and browser extensions did more to privacy in practice than any GDPR regulation in which exchanging business cards became some kind of mexican standoff.
swores 4y ago
No that's not true, though it does get spouted very often in online comments. It's true that a cookie banner (notification only) does not equal "the site can now do whatever it wants and is GDPR compliant thanks to the banner". However, cookie notification banners are nothing to do with GDPR! They are to comply with an earlier (but still active after GDPR) bit of legislation, the 2002 'ePrivacy Directive' (sometimes known as the "cookies law"). If you don't go near personal data, but still want to use cookies for website functionality, then GDPR doesn't apply but you need to notify users of your use of cookies. If you are doing stuff that's covered under GDPR, then you obviously need to do more than just a cookie notification, and in most cases doing that 'more' will cover the non-personal cookies too so no need for a separate cookie notification on top. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_and_Electronic_Communications_Directive_2002 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_and_Electronic_Communi... edit to be more specific: section (25) includes "Where such devices, for instance cookies, are intended for a legitimate purpose, such as to facilitate the provision of information society services, their use should be allowed on condition that users are provided with clear and precise information in accordance with Directive 95/46/EC about the purposes of cookies or similar devices so as to ensure that users are made aware of information being placed on the terminal equipment they are using." and "Access to specific website content may still be made conditional on the well-informed acceptance of a cookie or similar device, if it is used for a legitimate purpose." (meaning that unlike with GDPR, it's easier to say "these cookies are necessary, accept them or don't use this website") Full text of that 2002 directive: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX%3A32002L0058 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... And usual disclaimer, this is not legal advice, if you're doing anything affected by either the ePrivacy Directive or GDPR you'd do well to do one or both of getting specific advice from a lawyer with specific expertise in this area, and that if it's a personal site (or a company without the money for legal advice), better safe than sorry and better to give users more power (in terms of requiring their consent to use even cookies that might not need explicit opt-in to be legal, etc) than required rather than less. Both better in terms of liability, and in terms of ethics!
- illiarian 4y ago
  > However, cookie notification banners are nothing to do with GDPR! They are to comply with an earlier (but still active after GDPR) bit of legislation, the 2002 'ePrivacy Directive' (sometimes known as the "cookies law"). The cookie banners people are now complaining about are literally companies skirting or otherwise breaking GDPR. Because they now have to ask for your consent before the siphon your data and sell it wholesale to the highest bidder.
  - swores 4y ago
    Sorry if I wasn't clear, there's confusion between banners put up because of GDPR and actual 'cookie banners'. There are certainly plenty of examples of poorly implemented banners attempting to comply with GDPR while not actually being compliant, where consent is required, but I wouldn't call those 'cookie banners' since they generally talk about privacy and personal data, not just about cookies/local storage. My point was that there are plenty of websites that don't need to comply with GDPR (because nothing they do falls under its scope), but they still need to comply with the ePrivacy Directive and therefore there are plenty of cookie banners used for that purposes that are a perfectly acceptable way of complying with that law - though because people are more familiar with GDPR than with the ePrivacy Directive, they see those banners and think it's a non-compliant attempt at dealing with GDPR.
    - illiarian 4y ago
      I wish they's update the ePrivacy directive :) --- I think, but don't quote me in that, that with ePrivacy you don't really need a banner, but an explanation that you use cookies. But that is a minor issue
      - swores 4y ago
        I think there is an update being discussed? Away from my desk but will look in a bit
        4y ago

nforgerit 4y ago

Yeah. Mozilla with their ad-network visualization and browser extensions did more to privacy in practice than any GDPR regulation in which exchanging business cards became some kind of mexican standoff.

swores 4y ago

No that's not true, though it does get spouted very often in online comments. It's true that a cookie banner (notification only) does not equal "the site can now do whatever it wants and is GDPR compliant thanks to the banner". However, cookie notification banners are nothing to do with GDPR! They are to comply with an earlier (but still active after GDPR) bit of legislation, the 2002 'ePrivacy Directive' (sometimes known as the "cookies law"). If you don't go near personal data, but still want to use cookies for website functionality, then GDPR doesn't apply but you need to notify users of your use of cookies. If you are doing stuff that's covered under GDPR, then you obviously need to do more than just a cookie notification, and in most cases doing that 'more' will cover the non-personal cookies too so no need for a separate cookie notification on top. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_and_Electronic_Communications_Directive_2002 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privacy_and_Electronic_Communi... edit to be more specific: section (25) includes "Where such devices, for instance cookies, are intended for a legitimate purpose, such as to facilitate the provision of information society services, their use should be allowed on condition that users are provided with clear and precise information in accordance with Directive 95/46/EC about the purposes of cookies or similar devices so as to ensure that users are made aware of information being placed on the terminal equipment they are using." and "Access to specific website content may still be made conditional on the well-informed acceptance of a cookie or similar device, if it is used for a legitimate purpose." (meaning that unlike with GDPR, it's easier to say "these cookies are necessary, accept them or don't use this website") Full text of that 2002 directive: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX%3A32002L0058 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL... And usual disclaimer, this is not legal advice, if you're doing anything affected by either the ePrivacy Directive or GDPR you'd do well to do one or both of getting specific advice from a lawyer with specific expertise in this area, and that if it's a personal site (or a company without the money for legal advice), better safe than sorry and better to give users more power (in terms of requiring their consent to use even cookies that might not need explicit opt-in to be legal, etc) than required rather than less. Both better in terms of liability, and in terms of ethics!

illiarian 4y ago
> However, cookie notification banners are nothing to do with GDPR! They are to comply with an earlier (but still active after GDPR) bit of legislation, the 2002 'ePrivacy Directive' (sometimes known as the "cookies law"). The cookie banners people are now complaining about are literally companies skirting or otherwise breaking GDPR. Because they now have to ask for your consent before the siphon your data and sell it wholesale to the highest bidder.
- swores 4y ago
  Sorry if I wasn't clear, there's confusion between banners put up because of GDPR and actual 'cookie banners'. There are certainly plenty of examples of poorly implemented banners attempting to comply with GDPR while not actually being compliant, where consent is required, but I wouldn't call those 'cookie banners' since they generally talk about privacy and personal data, not just about cookies/local storage. My point was that there are plenty of websites that don't need to comply with GDPR (because nothing they do falls under its scope), but they still need to comply with the ePrivacy Directive and therefore there are plenty of cookie banners used for that purposes that are a perfectly acceptable way of complying with that law - though because people are more familiar with GDPR than with the ePrivacy Directive, they see those banners and think it's a non-compliant attempt at dealing with GDPR.
  - illiarian 4y ago
    I wish they's update the ePrivacy directive :) --- I think, but don't quote me in that, that with ePrivacy you don't really need a banner, but an explanation that you use cookies. But that is a minor issue
    - swores 4y ago
      I think there is an update being discussed? Away from my desk but will look in a bit
      - 4y ago