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They also regularly use their lights and sirens just to get through traffic. Those constant little violations of the law have a cumulative effect, like how brok

They also regularly use their lights and sirens just to get through traffic. Those constant little violations of the law have a cumulative effect, like how broken windows and other minor violations make a neighborhood feel less safe.

gukov 4y ago
Oh, so exactly like in Canada. Good to know we’re not the only ones, I guess. I do think turning on the lights possibly serves a good thing: it’s a silent reminder that the cops are in the area, especially at night.
- Topgamer7 4y ago
  I've actually heard that this is a gang surveillance tactic. The police will act in car pairs to shadow a gang's car from a block over. And not use their sirens or lights to not alert the criminals. Or maybe that's just conjecture.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    What you describe sounds like an amateur hour Keystone cops level of surveillance. Or some dirty cops doing some shady stuff. A real surveillance would be so much more professional. Depending on the budget/case/interest, they use multiple cars in the pursuit. Some cars are in front, some are behind the subject. They rotate positions so that the same car isn't in the same position all the time. There are so so many other techniques available as well that isn't just conjecture.
    - Topgamer7 4y ago
      Yes, that's what I'm describing. Except sometimes the cars get behind. So to catch up they blow intersections without lights. However I'm quite uninformed about it. Just raising the topic :)
- joncrane 4y ago
  Maybe also a silent reminder that many police officers will abuse every inch of power they're given?
  - beebeepka 4y ago
    Not in Canada, though. They use the metric system. On a more serious note, I am surprised parking on sidewalks is a thing over there. It really is a massive problem here in Bulgaria. Has been for decades at this point
- mcronce 4y ago
  A well-intentioned version of this is just having a couple of the overhead lights on - not strobing, and not running red lights.
  - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
    It's called patrol lights. They went out of fashion as police departments transitioned from "visible deterrent presence" to "haha gocthca, now pay up you filthy peasant" business model over the course of the war on drugs. I think Hawaii and Connecticut still do them though.
    - mcronce 4y ago
      TIL there's a name for that. I guess it makes sense that there would be, I just had no idea. Anecdotally speaking I've seen them in Pennsylvania and Maryland, but super uncommonly.
    - joncrane 4y ago
      They leave the blue lights on almost all the time in Washington DC as well.
yowzadave 4y ago
And often run red lights without even using their sirens. This kind of corruption drives me nuts.
- godzillabrennus 4y ago
  The people serving the bourgeoisie feel untouchable themselves usually before a period of upheaval.
  - arcanemachiner 4y ago
    It's not unreasonable to assume these same people end up clubbing dissidents after the upheaval as well.
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      Professionals are always wanted and needed.
      - javajosh 4y ago
        That's a negative, good buddy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism
bitwize 4y ago
Reminds me of the stories I'd heard about Toronto cops using their lights and sirens to clear a path to Tim Horton's. Which I found mildly surprising in Toronto's case, not at all surprising in NYC's.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  Not another illegality story but I remember in the first weeks of Toronto lockdown walking past a few unmasked police who laughed at me for putting my mask on as their group came near me, with one saying “Too late!” to me with a gleeful grin.
  - Avshalom 4y ago
    Cop-deaths like doubled during 2020/21/22 and it was entirely covid related.
    - cmh89 4y ago
      COVID-19 has been the number one cause of death for police officers for three years https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforcement-deaths-2022-3rd/story?id=96363324 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforc... It's not surprising in the slightest. I'm guessing a lot of them developed a aversion to vaccines from the media they ingest. Edit* I'm laughing at the downvotes for posting an article. Real Reddit energy.
      - sleepybrett 4y ago
        I think it's a few factors: 1) as you said they seem to be, as a group, vaccine adverse. Maybe because they see themselves as the ones that 'should be giving the orders not taking them' 2) Similarly, perhaps in macho alignment with point 1, their masking discipline was poor 3) .. and this is one in their favor, they were perhaps one of of the largest groups of 'essential workers' that still had to interact with many people even during the height of whatever we want to call that period early on where we were 'locked down'.
- 4y ago
aqme28 4y ago
Remember on July 4th when they made a private fireworks viewing section in a prime area for only police and their families, while the public areas were overcrowded? https://gothamist.com/news/nypd-blocked-off-vip-viewing-sites-for-friends-family-during-july-4th-fireworks https://gothamist.com/news/nypd-blocked-off-vip-viewing-site...
John23832 4y ago
This is a very succinct way to describe the problem. This is "Broken Windows" by our government/law enforcement. The constant skirting of the law public servants in NYC, be it the illegal parking, the using of sirens to push their way through traffic, the "I won't wear a mask but will fine you for not wearing one", NYPD officers not paying subway fares but fining the average joe, the special treatment (private spaces for NYPD families and adjacents in what are supposed to be public events)... All of that shit culminates in the lack of trust in institutions and the degradation of OUR city.
- sleepybrett 4y ago
  I'm a firm believer that law enforcement should be held to a higher standard when it comes to breaking the law. For instance, a person in law enforcement for any crime should have the punishment doubled after sentencing.
  - javajosh 4y ago
    Yes. When you join the force, the deal should be made clear: you get extra physical power over the people around you. In return, they get to hold you to a higher standard of conduct. Now the deal is: you get extra physical power over the people around you, the public is grateful for your 'sacrifice' and protection, such that if you screw up you'll get away with it. You will, like most humans, behave in a way that maximizes your pleasure and minimizes your pain, to the extent you can get away with it, and you'll quickly find that you can get away with almost anything. Just don't be too good, or piss off the wrong people in the department, and after 20 years you get to retire on a fat pension. Let's just get you tested to make sure you aren't too intelligent, and then you'll get your 6 weeks of training, and boom, you'll be on the street with a gun, ready "to protect and to serve"! Sometimes I think we'd be better off with AI cops.
  - gameman144 4y ago
    In my mind, we don't even need to go that far, we just need to reasonably apply the actual laws that we have today. I don't expect police officers to be paragons of virtue, I just expect them to follow the same laws that everyone else has to follow. If I park on the sidewalk, I will get a ticket. If a police officer parks on the sidewalk, there is no check on their ability to say "It was necessary for police business", even if it wasn't. Adding a method to track and prosecute that abuse is all I care about; police aren't being held accountable today, but I also don't see any need to hold them extra accountable -- just the same amount as everyone else is fine by me.
dathinab 4y ago
Honestly anything I hear about NYPD sounds like they are beyond being fixable and need to be dissolved and recreated from scratch with anyone in power of the recreation needing to be unrelated to the original NYPD. But then what I hear about it is very limited an done-sided.
- zzzeek 4y ago
  well here's the thing. shut down the NYPD, fire all the cops, they all go back home to Suffolk County. Now let's recreate the NYPD as something new! Let's hire all new cops. All 36000 of them. Who's going to apply for those jobs? Seems likely most of that original 36000 would be in line. that is, if you have cops, someone has to do that job. It seems like the job as practiced in the US naturally gravitates towards the kind of policing we seem to have. I think that all extends from the fact that guns are basically fully legal and ubiquitous throughout the US which puts it on police departments to be hyper aggressive, highly armed and dangerous, and generally mistrustful of the public; it also does not help that the educational background requirements for cops in the US are very low.
  - int_19h 4y ago
    Georgia (the country) did this exact thing with their traffic police that was notoriously corrupt. After firing literally everyone, they recreated the force from scratch with much more stringent hiring standards and correspondingly higher pay. Most of those old cops didn't even try to get rehired. They ended up having no traffic police at all for about one month before the new force was staffed enough to start running things. Sky didn't fall. As far as why US cops specifically are like that - it's because they're literally trained to be like that. Look up Dave Grossman and his "killology" nuttery (if you ever heard people talking about "sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs", that's from there). You'd think that would be some kind of fringe stuff, but no - there are police departments where the leadership paid for the entire force to attend one of his seminars.

gukov 4y ago

Oh, so exactly like in Canada. Good to know we’re not the only ones, I guess. I do think turning on the lights possibly serves a good thing: it’s a silent reminder that the cops are in the area, especially at night.

Topgamer7 4y ago
I've actually heard that this is a gang surveillance tactic. The police will act in car pairs to shadow a gang's car from a block over. And not use their sirens or lights to not alert the criminals. Or maybe that's just conjecture.
- dylan604 4y ago
  What you describe sounds like an amateur hour Keystone cops level of surveillance. Or some dirty cops doing some shady stuff. A real surveillance would be so much more professional. Depending on the budget/case/interest, they use multiple cars in the pursuit. Some cars are in front, some are behind the subject. They rotate positions so that the same car isn't in the same position all the time. There are so so many other techniques available as well that isn't just conjecture.
  - Topgamer7 4y ago
    Yes, that's what I'm describing. Except sometimes the cars get behind. So to catch up they blow intersections without lights. However I'm quite uninformed about it. Just raising the topic :)
joncrane 4y ago
Maybe also a silent reminder that many police officers will abuse every inch of power they're given?
- beebeepka 4y ago
  Not in Canada, though. They use the metric system. On a more serious note, I am surprised parking on sidewalks is a thing over there. It really is a massive problem here in Bulgaria. Has been for decades at this point
mcronce 4y ago
A well-intentioned version of this is just having a couple of the overhead lights on - not strobing, and not running red lights.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  It's called patrol lights. They went out of fashion as police departments transitioned from "visible deterrent presence" to "haha gocthca, now pay up you filthy peasant" business model over the course of the war on drugs. I think Hawaii and Connecticut still do them though.
  - mcronce 4y ago
    TIL there's a name for that. I guess it makes sense that there would be, I just had no idea. Anecdotally speaking I've seen them in Pennsylvania and Maryland, but super uncommonly.
  - joncrane 4y ago
    They leave the blue lights on almost all the time in Washington DC as well.

yowzadave 4y ago

And often run red lights without even using their sirens. This kind of corruption drives me nuts.

godzillabrennus 4y ago
The people serving the bourgeoisie feel untouchable themselves usually before a period of upheaval.
- arcanemachiner 4y ago
  It's not unreasonable to assume these same people end up clubbing dissidents after the upheaval as well.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    Professionals are always wanted and needed.
    - javajosh 4y ago
      That's a negative, good buddy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism

bitwize 4y ago

Reminds me of the stories I'd heard about Toronto cops using their lights and sirens to clear a path to Tim Horton's. Which I found mildly surprising in Toronto's case, not at all surprising in NYC's.

wahnfrieden 4y ago
Not another illegality story but I remember in the first weeks of Toronto lockdown walking past a few unmasked police who laughed at me for putting my mask on as their group came near me, with one saying “Too late!” to me with a gleeful grin.
- Avshalom 4y ago
  Cop-deaths like doubled during 2020/21/22 and it was entirely covid related.
  - cmh89 4y ago
    COVID-19 has been the number one cause of death for police officers for three years https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforcement-deaths-2022-3rd/story?id=96363324 https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-leading-cause-law-enforc... It's not surprising in the slightest. I'm guessing a lot of them developed a aversion to vaccines from the media they ingest. Edit* I'm laughing at the downvotes for posting an article. Real Reddit energy.
    - sleepybrett 4y ago
      I think it's a few factors: 1) as you said they seem to be, as a group, vaccine adverse. Maybe because they see themselves as the ones that 'should be giving the orders not taking them' 2) Similarly, perhaps in macho alignment with point 1, their masking discipline was poor 3) .. and this is one in their favor, they were perhaps one of of the largest groups of 'essential workers' that still had to interact with many people even during the height of whatever we want to call that period early on where we were 'locked down'.
4y ago

aqme28 4y ago

Remember on July 4th when they made a private fireworks viewing section in a prime area for only police and their families, while the public areas were overcrowded? https://gothamist.com/news/nypd-blocked-off-vip-viewing-sites-for-friends-family-during-july-4th-fireworks https://gothamist.com/news/nypd-blocked-off-vip-viewing-site...

John23832 4y ago

This is a very succinct way to describe the problem. This is "Broken Windows" by our government/law enforcement. The constant skirting of the law public servants in NYC, be it the illegal parking, the using of sirens to push their way through traffic, the "I won't wear a mask but will fine you for not wearing one", NYPD officers not paying subway fares but fining the average joe, the special treatment (private spaces for NYPD families and adjacents in what are supposed to be public events)... All of that shit culminates in the lack of trust in institutions and the degradation of OUR city.

sleepybrett 4y ago
I'm a firm believer that law enforcement should be held to a higher standard when it comes to breaking the law. For instance, a person in law enforcement for any crime should have the punishment doubled after sentencing.
- javajosh 4y ago
  Yes. When you join the force, the deal should be made clear: you get extra physical power over the people around you. In return, they get to hold you to a higher standard of conduct. Now the deal is: you get extra physical power over the people around you, the public is grateful for your 'sacrifice' and protection, such that if you screw up you'll get away with it. You will, like most humans, behave in a way that maximizes your pleasure and minimizes your pain, to the extent you can get away with it, and you'll quickly find that you can get away with almost anything. Just don't be too good, or piss off the wrong people in the department, and after 20 years you get to retire on a fat pension. Let's just get you tested to make sure you aren't too intelligent, and then you'll get your 6 weeks of training, and boom, you'll be on the street with a gun, ready "to protect and to serve"! Sometimes I think we'd be better off with AI cops.
- gameman144 4y ago
  In my mind, we don't even need to go that far, we just need to reasonably apply the actual laws that we have today. I don't expect police officers to be paragons of virtue, I just expect them to follow the same laws that everyone else has to follow. If I park on the sidewalk, I will get a ticket. If a police officer parks on the sidewalk, there is no check on their ability to say "It was necessary for police business", even if it wasn't. Adding a method to track and prosecute that abuse is all I care about; police aren't being held accountable today, but I also don't see any need to hold them extra accountable -- just the same amount as everyone else is fine by me.

dathinab 4y ago

Honestly anything I hear about NYPD sounds like they are beyond being fixable and need to be dissolved and recreated from scratch with anyone in power of the recreation needing to be unrelated to the original NYPD. But then what I hear about it is very limited an done-sided.

zzzeek 4y ago
well here's the thing. shut down the NYPD, fire all the cops, they all go back home to Suffolk County. Now let's recreate the NYPD as something new! Let's hire all new cops. All 36000 of them. Who's going to apply for those jobs? Seems likely most of that original 36000 would be in line. that is, if you have cops, someone has to do that job. It seems like the job as practiced in the US naturally gravitates towards the kind of policing we seem to have. I think that all extends from the fact that guns are basically fully legal and ubiquitous throughout the US which puts it on police departments to be hyper aggressive, highly armed and dangerous, and generally mistrustful of the public; it also does not help that the educational background requirements for cops in the US are very low.
- int_19h 4y ago
  Georgia (the country) did this exact thing with their traffic police that was notoriously corrupt. After firing literally everyone, they recreated the force from scratch with much more stringent hiring standards and correspondingly higher pay. Most of those old cops didn't even try to get rehired. They ended up having no traffic police at all for about one month before the new force was staffed enough to start running things. Sky didn't fall. As far as why US cops specifically are like that - it's because they're literally trained to be like that. Look up Dave Grossman and his "killology" nuttery (if you ever heard people talking about "sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs", that's from there). You'd think that would be some kind of fringe stuff, but no - there are police departments where the leadership paid for the entire force to attend one of his seminars.