7 ms·

This reminds me of San Francisco Police Strike 1975 where the Police ignored court orders and called the court order "Unconstitutional". (https://www.nytimes.co

This reminds me of San Francisco Police Strike 1975 where the Police ignored court orders and called the court order "Unconstitutional". (https://www.nytimes.com/1975/08/20/archives/police-out-san-francisco-faces-fire-and-transit-strikes-new-tieups.html https://www.nytimes.com/1975/08/20/archives/police-out-san-f...) In the end they got what they wanted too.

fakedang 4y ago
Looks like USA is a police state after all. The irony.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  NYC, SF, and other big cities behave this way, but most of the rest of the country doesn't.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    Most? Corrupt county sheriffs are a tale as old as time. I don't know why people try to give a pass to non-big city policing with a brush off like this.
  - dumpsterlid 4y ago
    Where is your evidence for that?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - paxys 4y ago
    Small town police departments are worse. They just don't get all the press.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      They also don't have the same level of power as the NYPD, which is a big difference.
      - fakedang 4y ago
        I doubt that. They do have higher levels of relative power within their tight-knit communities. And for the most part, their instances of corruption would be investigated much less often, simply because there's no one there to investigate them.
        pclmulqdq 4y ago
        Small town cops would literally get shot if they behaved the way NYPD officers behave towards citizens. Their accrual of power depends on being nice to the 30,000 people in the town. In turn, they get away with a lot of bad stuff. The NYPD also needs to be nice to about 30,000 people to accrue power too, but that is wielded against a city of 40 million, with industrial scale.
        Avshalom 4y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30012544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30012544
        cmh89 4y ago
        > Their accrual of power depends on being nice to the 30,000 people in the town No it doesn't. Small town cops get their power from their lack of having anything to do and the blind support of the community. The small town I grew up in had a cop murder four people because he broke chase policy and even left his jurisdiction. The town newspaper wrote a weeks worth of articles talking about what a great guy he was and how all the youths in the town loved him. Don't piss off a small town cop. They have literally nothing to do and can/will pull you over every single time they see you. Edit* I have to edit this due to this forums anti-discussion features Sorry, most police departments have rules about how far/fast you can chase someone in a vehicle who is fleeing. They have these in place so cowboy cops don't engage in dangerous behavior for low value. This cowboy pulled into a cul-de-sac and some kids who had some weed on them got spooked a pulled out. He started to chase them, it turned into a high-speed chase on rural roads. They flew through a stop sign and t-boned a car with four people inside of it. Killed them all. Over some weed. That's why the policies exist in the first place, he violated it, and four people paid the price.
    - yucky 4y ago
      Do you have any sources on that claim?
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    What are you talking about? Small cities are just as rife with corruption. The nationwide "cash for kids" scandal occurred in a small city in Philadelphia. Pasco County, whose largest city is less than 20,000 in populace, literally collected lists of children's names and families for extra surveillance under the assumption they would be future criminals regardless of actual criminal history. Sundown Towns, a notion where hate crimes are effectively legal after dark, were enforced by local law enforcement (i.e. the law enforcement were lynching black people). There's no reason not to believe that law enforcement everywhere can and does turn dangerous to the local population without stringent education, repercussions for bad behavior, and transparency.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      Local law enforcement branches can be very corrupt, but don't have the resources to run a surveillance/police state like this.
      - amrocha 4y ago
        Police state doesn't mean surveillance
      - iudqnolq 4y ago
        In a small community where everyone knows everyone you don't need equipment to run a surveillance state. What about medium communities? Tech is very scalable, federal antiterror funds are significant, and surveillance is a profit center for police forces. Many medium police forces fund the majority of their budget through fines and fees.
      - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
        Again: I don't think you're accurate here. The Pasco County case kept heavy surveillance of children by trawling every school in the county and systemically categorizing every child in the county by GPA, Attendance, credit count, etc. to identify which children to put under heavy specific surveillance (e.g. showing up dozens of times at family members workplaces unprompted and with no suspicion of crime) effectively harassing entire whole families out of the county. I would 100% consider screening every child to identify future criminals and then cracking down on their families, including unprompted visits to workplaces dozens of times, to be police state stuff.
  - Bud 4y ago
    Did you miss the Murdaugh murders in South Carolina? Might want to review that the murderer's family was in charge of basically the entire justice system in a wide swath of that state. For the last 100 years.
  - vkou 4y ago
    Police in the rest of the country behaves in worse ways, it just that they don't usually get put under a microscope unless they kill a sufficiently photogenic person. The system of checks and balances between police and the people they are supposed to be accountable to is completely broken. (Even if by some miracle, you do manage to hold a small-town cop accountable for something he did, he can make it his life's goal to personally make yours a living hell. At least in a big city, you're not going to be driving past any particular cop, every day, on your way to work.)
- seanw444 4y ago
  As a police officer, you swear an oath to uphold the US Constitution. If you believe a law is unconstitutional, you have an obligation to not enforce it. I know, that kind of autonomy and trust is foreign to non-USAers, but that's why this country is great.
  - chimeracoder 4y ago
    > As a police officer, you swear an oath to uphold the US Constitution. We'll, they routinely violate the Constitution too, so at least they're consistent.
  - crop_rotation 4y ago
    Yeah right. Where does the US constitution gives police officers the right to decide whether a court order is "unconstitutional"?
    - salawat 4y ago
      Actually, it stems from the Nuremberg Trials, and actually having a goddamn moral compass. If you're looking for something a bit more internal to the U.S., look no further than the original Declaration of Independence. While it may scare the bajeezus out of many, the responsibility for calling out governmental bullshit is vested solely with the People, and law enforcers are still People to. Welcome to why the United States is "Home of the Brave". It takes courage to stick around in a melting pot of crazy, and you never really know who is coming to dinner, or how long the civility is going to hold out.
      - cmh89 4y ago
        >Actually, it stems from the Nuremberg Trials, and actually having a goddamn moral compass It doesn't 'stem' from anywhere. It's just a right-wing thing to pretend that police have some unwritten ability to decide the legality of laws. > While it may scare the bajeezus out of many, the responsibility for calling out governmental bullshit is vested solely with the People, and law enforcers are still People to. Calling out 'governmental bullshit' is something they can do on their own time by practicing their 1st amendment rights. Choosing to not enforce a law because you don't like it is not free speech. It's job abandonment and should be treated as such. If you think part of your job is morally wrong, you should quit.
- BonoboIO 4y ago
  I don’t know why you are downvoted.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_police_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_police_strike Ten deaths and countless other crimes, violent and property related.

fakedang 4y ago

Looks like USA is a police state after all. The irony.

pclmulqdq 4y ago
NYC, SF, and other big cities behave this way, but most of the rest of the country doesn't.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Most? Corrupt county sheriffs are a tale as old as time. I don't know why people try to give a pass to non-big city policing with a brush off like this.
- dumpsterlid 4y ago
  Where is your evidence for that?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- paxys 4y ago
  Small town police departments are worse. They just don't get all the press.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    They also don't have the same level of power as the NYPD, which is a big difference.
    - fakedang 4y ago
      I doubt that. They do have higher levels of relative power within their tight-knit communities. And for the most part, their instances of corruption would be investigated much less often, simply because there's no one there to investigate them.
      - pclmulqdq 4y ago
        Small town cops would literally get shot if they behaved the way NYPD officers behave towards citizens. Their accrual of power depends on being nice to the 30,000 people in the town. In turn, they get away with a lot of bad stuff. The NYPD also needs to be nice to about 30,000 people to accrue power too, but that is wielded against a city of 40 million, with industrial scale.
        Avshalom 4y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30012544 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30012544
        cmh89 4y ago
        > Their accrual of power depends on being nice to the 30,000 people in the town No it doesn't. Small town cops get their power from their lack of having anything to do and the blind support of the community. The small town I grew up in had a cop murder four people because he broke chase policy and even left his jurisdiction. The town newspaper wrote a weeks worth of articles talking about what a great guy he was and how all the youths in the town loved him. Don't piss off a small town cop. They have literally nothing to do and can/will pull you over every single time they see you. Edit* I have to edit this due to this forums anti-discussion features Sorry, most police departments have rules about how far/fast you can chase someone in a vehicle who is fleeing. They have these in place so cowboy cops don't engage in dangerous behavior for low value. This cowboy pulled into a cul-de-sac and some kids who had some weed on them got spooked a pulled out. He started to chase them, it turned into a high-speed chase on rural roads. They flew through a stop sign and t-boned a car with four people inside of it. Killed them all. Over some weed. That's why the policies exist in the first place, he violated it, and four people paid the price.
  - yucky 4y ago
    Do you have any sources on that claim?
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  What are you talking about? Small cities are just as rife with corruption. The nationwide "cash for kids" scandal occurred in a small city in Philadelphia. Pasco County, whose largest city is less than 20,000 in populace, literally collected lists of children's names and families for extra surveillance under the assumption they would be future criminals regardless of actual criminal history. Sundown Towns, a notion where hate crimes are effectively legal after dark, were enforced by local law enforcement (i.e. the law enforcement were lynching black people). There's no reason not to believe that law enforcement everywhere can and does turn dangerous to the local population without stringent education, repercussions for bad behavior, and transparency.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    Local law enforcement branches can be very corrupt, but don't have the resources to run a surveillance/police state like this.
    - amrocha 4y ago
      Police state doesn't mean surveillance
    - iudqnolq 4y ago
      In a small community where everyone knows everyone you don't need equipment to run a surveillance state. What about medium communities? Tech is very scalable, federal antiterror funds are significant, and surveillance is a profit center for police forces. Many medium police forces fund the majority of their budget through fines and fees.
    - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
      Again: I don't think you're accurate here. The Pasco County case kept heavy surveillance of children by trawling every school in the county and systemically categorizing every child in the county by GPA, Attendance, credit count, etc. to identify which children to put under heavy specific surveillance (e.g. showing up dozens of times at family members workplaces unprompted and with no suspicion of crime) effectively harassing entire whole families out of the county. I would 100% consider screening every child to identify future criminals and then cracking down on their families, including unprompted visits to workplaces dozens of times, to be police state stuff.
- Bud 4y ago
  Did you miss the Murdaugh murders in South Carolina? Might want to review that the murderer's family was in charge of basically the entire justice system in a wide swath of that state. For the last 100 years.
- vkou 4y ago
  Police in the rest of the country behaves in worse ways, it just that they don't usually get put under a microscope unless they kill a sufficiently photogenic person. The system of checks and balances between police and the people they are supposed to be accountable to is completely broken. (Even if by some miracle, you do manage to hold a small-town cop accountable for something he did, he can make it his life's goal to personally make yours a living hell. At least in a big city, you're not going to be driving past any particular cop, every day, on your way to work.)
seanw444 4y ago
As a police officer, you swear an oath to uphold the US Constitution. If you believe a law is unconstitutional, you have an obligation to not enforce it. I know, that kind of autonomy and trust is foreign to non-USAers, but that's why this country is great.
- chimeracoder 4y ago
  > As a police officer, you swear an oath to uphold the US Constitution. We'll, they routinely violate the Constitution too, so at least they're consistent.
- crop_rotation 4y ago
  Yeah right. Where does the US constitution gives police officers the right to decide whether a court order is "unconstitutional"?
  - salawat 4y ago
    Actually, it stems from the Nuremberg Trials, and actually having a goddamn moral compass. If you're looking for something a bit more internal to the U.S., look no further than the original Declaration of Independence. While it may scare the bajeezus out of many, the responsibility for calling out governmental bullshit is vested solely with the People, and law enforcers are still People to. Welcome to why the United States is "Home of the Brave". It takes courage to stick around in a melting pot of crazy, and you never really know who is coming to dinner, or how long the civility is going to hold out.
    - cmh89 4y ago
      >Actually, it stems from the Nuremberg Trials, and actually having a goddamn moral compass It doesn't 'stem' from anywhere. It's just a right-wing thing to pretend that police have some unwritten ability to decide the legality of laws. > While it may scare the bajeezus out of many, the responsibility for calling out governmental bullshit is vested solely with the People, and law enforcers are still People to. Calling out 'governmental bullshit' is something they can do on their own time by practicing their 1st amendment rights. Choosing to not enforce a law because you don't like it is not free speech. It's job abandonment and should be treated as such. If you think part of your job is morally wrong, you should quit.
BonoboIO 4y ago
I don’t know why you are downvoted.

KennyBlanken 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_police_strike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_police_strike Ten deaths and countless other crimes, violent and property related.