4 ms·

> the public as a whole there don't really look like they care Really? The George Floyd protests were the largest protests in US history. That summer in NYC wa

by aqme28 4y ago

> the public as a whole there don't really look like they care Really? The George Floyd protests were the largest protests in US history. That summer in NYC was extremely tense between the NYPD and regular residents (I have plenty of stories). Maybe I lived in an NYC bubble, but nearly everyone I knew was extremely upset with the NYPD, and remains upset.

drumhead 4y ago
Why hasnt anything changed then?
- aqme28 4y ago
  We're commenting on an article about how the NYPD aren't accountable and aren't even following NYC laws. It is well-known that they don't follow the law in general. There's very little power for the citizens to actually do anything. The NYPD holds tremendous political power, and wields it aggressively. They even _publicly threatened_ the children of the previous mayor.
  - feanaro 4y ago
    > They even _publicly threatened_ the children of the previous mayor. I'm curious to learn more. Do you have a source?
    - kevviiinn 4y ago
      https://www.businessinsider.com/aoc-attacks-nypd-for-threatening-bill-de-blasios-daughter-after-arrest-2020-6?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/aoc-attacks-nypd-for-threate...
      - Bud 4y ago
        This doesn't seem to support any allegation that the NYPD "publicly threatened" DeBlasio's "children". What did happen is that the NYPD Sergeants' union inappropriately tweeted details about her arrest, after she was arrested. That's one child, for those keeping score, not "children", and it's also not a "threat" of any identifiable kind. It is definitely inappropriate, though. So it would appear that Business Insider's headline was sensationalist and not well supported.
        mjhay 4y ago
        It was not a coincidence they arrested her when she did. It was absolutely a tactic to intimidate DeBlasio. It worked too!
        s5300 4y ago
        >> inappropriately tweeted details about her arrest This is typically considered a threat by most well adjusted people, and most definitely an extreme level of harassment.
  - Aunche 4y ago
    > There's very little power for the citizens to actually do anything. How much effort did you expend before declaring that change is futile? The NYPD has political power because they worked to establish relationships with politicians and spent money to hire lobbyists that keep these these politicians accountable to their interests. On the other hand, most people would have trouble to name a single city councilor.
- giraffe_lady 4y ago
  Quite frankly we lost. We were beaten and tear gassed and arrested and called rioters & looters on the news. Public figures called for more violence against us in major mainstream liberal publications. Many of us are still in jail with six figure bails, some of us are facing terrorism charges. The entire system came down hard on those protests, from nearly every angle. The democrats refused to endorse or support the goal, and the risks & costs of continuing or escalating were too high. So it stopped, failed.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    Most cities that started to follow through on either scrapping their police force or cutting their funding saw a massive spike in crime, and even those mayors and city councillors who were adamantly defund-the-police types are now begging for more money for the police and for police officers to come back out of retirement or from the other cities they moved to. The public turned on the movement when the movement turned on the public. Minneapolis neighborhoods were faced with turning into food deserts after looting caused enough damage to force the grocery stores to close for nearly a year (smoke and water damage). Some stores partner with non-governmental community peace organizations (i.e. civilized gangs) to reduce the need for police presence, and it is slowly working. Others haven't been so lucky. A Walmart recent closed in a suburb because it needed to call police nearly 6,500 times over the course of 5 years. That was after other local retail outlets had also closed. Social fabric in some areas is just fundamentally torn, and there's nobody with a good solution.
    - giraffe_lady 4y ago
      Which cities were those, that started to follow through on defunding? Cities that increased funding are also experiencing the crime spike. It's a national phenomenon. Also one that apparently police can't prevent because, again, more police haven't prevented it.
      - zdragnar 4y ago
        Over 20 major cities cut or moved funding in some way by 2021: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/07/us-cities-defund-police-transferring-money-community https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/07/us-cities-de...
- philipov 4y ago
  Who are you to be quoting laws to those who have guns?
  - salawat 4y ago
    New York, remember? The State that looks at the Second Amendment as an aspirational guideline. To be frank, I think the current problem may be a symptom of the other. (Unarmed populace -> Corrupt cops) Power dynamic changes a bit, taking one down a few pegs when everyone else in the room is packing iron without having to get a blessing from the Police.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
      > Power dynamic changes a bit Not even a bit. If the officer is never held accountable, they can threaten with their gun and the civilian who wants to pull theirs in response is just going to be legally shot by the threatening officer (and if not, found guilty of murder by a vengeful police department). This really is a problem of accountability, which guns don't bring except in a revolution.
- gorbachev 4y ago
  Because the various police unions hold enormous power over city council, the DAs and the mayor. There's nobody in the city that seems to dare hold them accountable, because past experience has thought them they will get completely owned by Pat Lynch.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- eevilspock 4y ago
  because those large protests were mainly young people. Most New Yorkers, especially the middle-aged and older white liberals, are pro-cop. New York city, the supposed bastion of progressivity and human rights, has the most segregated school system of any big city in the nation. Walk around liberal brooklyn and look at the color of the people being served and those doing the service, and you will see a caste system no better than anywhere in the South.
fallingknife 4y ago
I think you're probably living in a bubble. The people of NYC elected an ex NYPD officer as mayor in 2021, so they can't be that upset with the NYPD.
- banannaise 4y ago
  Adams won the Democratic primary by less than one percent, despite aggressive campaigning on his behalf by, among other organizations, the Police Benevolent Association. (I am discarding the general election because his Republican opponent was, let's say, a less-than-serious candidate.) He also had police reform as a key part of his platform, although at this point his dedication to that seems questionable at best. I wouldn't exactly call his win a mandate for policing.
  - chimeracoder 4y ago
    > Adams won the Democratic primary by less than one percent, despite aggressive campaigning on his behalf by, among other organizations, the Police Benevolent Association. (I am discarding the general election because his Republican opponent was, let's say, a less-than-serious candidate.) Adams barely won the primary, and that was only after literally four other forerunners all either dropped out for personal reasons or became embroiled in campaign-ending personal scandals (e.g. sexual harassment allegations). > I wouldn't exactly call his win a mandate for policing. The media reported it as if it were one, but that was an incredibly lazy and dishonest interpretation of the election results. There were many other citywide and local races on the same ballot, and more progressive candidates pretty consistently swept all of those races. The mayoral race was the one exception, making it quite obvious that was an accident of circumstance rather than an affirmation of Adams specifically. If anything, the 2021 NYC elections were a clear mandate for reigning in the NYPD: when given the option of a candidate who wanted to reign in NYPD power and didn't have objectively disqualifying personal behavior, voters pretty consistently chose that candidate for nearly every single race in every single level of government and in every district. Unfortunately, because of the series of scandals that marred the mayoral primary, it made it easy for national media to ignore the entire context and focus entirely on the end result of one single race, rather than the causes of that race, or the many other candidates that people voted for on literally the exact same ballot.

by aqme28 4y ago

drumhead 4y ago

Why hasnt anything changed then?

aqme28 4y ago
We're commenting on an article about how the NYPD aren't accountable and aren't even following NYC laws. It is well-known that they don't follow the law in general. There's very little power for the citizens to actually do anything. The NYPD holds tremendous political power, and wields it aggressively. They even _publicly threatened_ the children of the previous mayor.
- feanaro 4y ago
  > They even _publicly threatened_ the children of the previous mayor. I'm curious to learn more. Do you have a source?
  - kevviiinn 4y ago
    https://www.businessinsider.com/aoc-attacks-nypd-for-threatening-bill-de-blasios-daughter-after-arrest-2020-6?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/aoc-attacks-nypd-for-threate...
    - Bud 4y ago
      This doesn't seem to support any allegation that the NYPD "publicly threatened" DeBlasio's "children". What did happen is that the NYPD Sergeants' union inappropriately tweeted details about her arrest, after she was arrested. That's one child, for those keeping score, not "children", and it's also not a "threat" of any identifiable kind. It is definitely inappropriate, though. So it would appear that Business Insider's headline was sensationalist and not well supported.
      - mjhay 4y ago
        It was not a coincidence they arrested her when she did. It was absolutely a tactic to intimidate DeBlasio. It worked too!
      - s5300 4y ago
        >> inappropriately tweeted details about her arrest This is typically considered a threat by most well adjusted people, and most definitely an extreme level of harassment.
- Aunche 4y ago
  > There's very little power for the citizens to actually do anything. How much effort did you expend before declaring that change is futile? The NYPD has political power because they worked to establish relationships with politicians and spent money to hire lobbyists that keep these these politicians accountable to their interests. On the other hand, most people would have trouble to name a single city councilor.
giraffe_lady 4y ago
Quite frankly we lost. We were beaten and tear gassed and arrested and called rioters & looters on the news. Public figures called for more violence against us in major mainstream liberal publications. Many of us are still in jail with six figure bails, some of us are facing terrorism charges. The entire system came down hard on those protests, from nearly every angle. The democrats refused to endorse or support the goal, and the risks & costs of continuing or escalating were too high. So it stopped, failed.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  Most cities that started to follow through on either scrapping their police force or cutting their funding saw a massive spike in crime, and even those mayors and city councillors who were adamantly defund-the-police types are now begging for more money for the police and for police officers to come back out of retirement or from the other cities they moved to. The public turned on the movement when the movement turned on the public. Minneapolis neighborhoods were faced with turning into food deserts after looting caused enough damage to force the grocery stores to close for nearly a year (smoke and water damage). Some stores partner with non-governmental community peace organizations (i.e. civilized gangs) to reduce the need for police presence, and it is slowly working. Others haven't been so lucky. A Walmart recent closed in a suburb because it needed to call police nearly 6,500 times over the course of 5 years. That was after other local retail outlets had also closed. Social fabric in some areas is just fundamentally torn, and there's nobody with a good solution.
  - giraffe_lady 4y ago
    Which cities were those, that started to follow through on defunding? Cities that increased funding are also experiencing the crime spike. It's a national phenomenon. Also one that apparently police can't prevent because, again, more police haven't prevented it.
    - zdragnar 4y ago
      Over 20 major cities cut or moved funding in some way by 2021: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/07/us-cities-defund-police-transferring-money-community https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/mar/07/us-cities-de...
philipov 4y ago
Who are you to be quoting laws to those who have guns?
- salawat 4y ago
  New York, remember? The State that looks at the Second Amendment as an aspirational guideline. To be frank, I think the current problem may be a symptom of the other. (Unarmed populace -> Corrupt cops) Power dynamic changes a bit, taking one down a few pegs when everyone else in the room is packing iron without having to get a blessing from the Police.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    > Power dynamic changes a bit Not even a bit. If the officer is never held accountable, they can threaten with their gun and the civilian who wants to pull theirs in response is just going to be legally shot by the threatening officer (and if not, found guilty of murder by a vengeful police department). This really is a problem of accountability, which guns don't bring except in a revolution.
gorbachev 4y ago
Because the various police unions hold enormous power over city council, the DAs and the mayor. There's nobody in the city that seems to dare hold them accountable, because past experience has thought them they will get completely owned by Pat Lynch.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
eevilspock 4y ago
because those large protests were mainly young people. Most New Yorkers, especially the middle-aged and older white liberals, are pro-cop. New York city, the supposed bastion of progressivity and human rights, has the most segregated school system of any big city in the nation. Walk around liberal brooklyn and look at the color of the people being served and those doing the service, and you will see a caste system no better than anywhere in the South.

fallingknife 4y ago

I think you're probably living in a bubble. The people of NYC elected an ex NYPD officer as mayor in 2021, so they can't be that upset with the NYPD.

banannaise 4y ago
Adams won the Democratic primary by less than one percent, despite aggressive campaigning on his behalf by, among other organizations, the Police Benevolent Association. (I am discarding the general election because his Republican opponent was, let's say, a less-than-serious candidate.) He also had police reform as a key part of his platform, although at this point his dedication to that seems questionable at best. I wouldn't exactly call his win a mandate for policing.
- chimeracoder 4y ago
  > Adams won the Democratic primary by less than one percent, despite aggressive campaigning on his behalf by, among other organizations, the Police Benevolent Association. (I am discarding the general election because his Republican opponent was, let's say, a less-than-serious candidate.) Adams barely won the primary, and that was only after literally four other forerunners all either dropped out for personal reasons or became embroiled in campaign-ending personal scandals (e.g. sexual harassment allegations). > I wouldn't exactly call his win a mandate for policing. The media reported it as if it were one, but that was an incredibly lazy and dishonest interpretation of the election results. There were many other citywide and local races on the same ballot, and more progressive candidates pretty consistently swept all of those races. The mayoral race was the one exception, making it quite obvious that was an accident of circumstance rather than an affirmation of Adams specifically. If anything, the 2021 NYC elections were a clear mandate for reigning in the NYPD: when given the option of a candidate who wanted to reign in NYPD power and didn't have objectively disqualifying personal behavior, voters pretty consistently chose that candidate for nearly every single race in every single level of government and in every district. Unfortunately, because of the series of scandals that marred the mayoral primary, it made it easy for national media to ignore the entire context and focus entirely on the end result of one single race, rather than the causes of that race, or the many other candidates that people voted for on literally the exact same ballot.