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Illegally invading a nation, killing upwards of a million people and destroying their way of life in order to institute a top down US-centric view of how societ

by yucky 4y ago

Illegally invading a nation, killing upwards of a million people and destroying their way of life in order to institute a top down US-centric view of how society should function - fits their definition perfectly. And not just in Iraq, but Afghanistan as well. And that's just in the last 20 years. I could also make a case in Syria and Libya as well but that would require first convincing you that our CIA/State Dept. were up to their usual tricks which I suspect would be a waste of our time. And let's not forget our role in this whole Ukrainian boondoggle going back to at least 2014 with funding & fomenting the coup/revolution that gave Putin his "justification" to annex Crimea. Then we sit back as moral arbiters and want the whole world to still pretend we are always the good guys.

mindslight 4y ago
> I could also make a case in Syria and Libya as well but that would require first convincing you that our CIA/State Dept. were up to their usual tricks Good news, no convincing needed! I do agree with you that the US government is continually meddling in foreign countries, and I agree that this is a bad thing. > the coup/revolution that gave Putin his "justification" to annex Crimea. But here is where you lose me. Even to the extent that the US supported pro-western political movements in Ukraine, it still does not justify overt war by Russia. Russia was surely playing the influence game as well, and ultimately lost. Losing that game doesn't justify escalating to the next level, especially when that next level is full on war of attacking civilian infrastructure and razing cities.
- yucky 4y ago
  NATO proved in Yugoslavia that it's not "just a defensive alliance", and since their stated goal is to fuck over Russia, then you can see exactly why they responded the way they did when NATO keeps closing the circle tighter and tighter around Russia. This doesn't require guesswork, our own intelligence agencies have stated this as the likely outcome for decades.
  - mopsi 4y ago
    > NATO proved in Yugoslavia that it's not "just a defensive alliance" Yes, it also stepped in to stop genocide where it could (and waited too long, if you ask me). Even by the highest estimates, the whole 78-day aerial warfare campaign killed less people than several atrocities commited during Yugoslav wars did in a single day, and the campaign brought a lasting peace to the region. > NATO keeps closing the circle tighter and tighter around Russia. Yes, that's why until Russia invaded Ukraine, NATO countries in Europe kept cutting military budgets, reducing troop numbers, disbanding units, closing military bases, selling off equipment. All a fiendish plot to encircle Russia!

by yucky 4y ago

mindslight 4y ago

> I could also make a case in Syria and Libya as well but that would require first convincing you that our CIA/State Dept. were up to their usual tricks Good news, no convincing needed! I do agree with you that the US government is continually meddling in foreign countries, and I agree that this is a bad thing. > the coup/revolution that gave Putin his "justification" to annex Crimea. But here is where you lose me. Even to the extent that the US supported pro-western political movements in Ukraine, it still does not justify overt war by Russia. Russia was surely playing the influence game as well, and ultimately lost. Losing that game doesn't justify escalating to the next level, especially when that next level is full on war of attacking civilian infrastructure and razing cities.

yucky 4y ago
NATO proved in Yugoslavia that it's not "just a defensive alliance", and since their stated goal is to fuck over Russia, then you can see exactly why they responded the way they did when NATO keeps closing the circle tighter and tighter around Russia. This doesn't require guesswork, our own intelligence agencies have stated this as the likely outcome for decades.
- mopsi 4y ago
  > NATO proved in Yugoslavia that it's not "just a defensive alliance" Yes, it also stepped in to stop genocide where it could (and waited too long, if you ask me). Even by the highest estimates, the whole 78-day aerial warfare campaign killed less people than several atrocities commited during Yugoslav wars did in a single day, and the campaign brought a lasting peace to the region. > NATO keeps closing the circle tighter and tighter around Russia. Yes, that's why until Russia invaded Ukraine, NATO countries in Europe kept cutting military budgets, reducing troop numbers, disbanding units, closing military bases, selling off equipment. All a fiendish plot to encircle Russia!