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> That's called moving the goalposts. No, it isn't. That's the test. > no matter what you are still required to have a legal presence in the EU if you want to

> That's called moving the goalposts. No, it isn't. That's the test. > no matter what you are still required to have a legal presence in the EU if you want to serve EU customers. That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU.

jacquesm 4y ago
> That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-transition-period/data-protection-and-the-eu-in-detail/the-uk-gdpr/european-representatives/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-tr... https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ You seem to be arguing from how you believe it should work or how you think it works without knowing how it actually works, which is quite important when you are operating a business.
- th18row 4y ago
  He's right though, the EU can do nothing in that case. Quite literally nothing. There is no law to abide because you don't "care" about it and there are no consequences. Practicality > useless laws
  - Zurrrrr 4y ago
    Yup, that's the whole point. The Deloitte page I linked to gives a Chinese web store located in China with no EU presence as an example. It's bonkers that the EU thinks they can enforce their laws in a situation like that. But then, that's why it hasn't been tested. It's basically a 'feel good' law with no teeth (at least the extraterritorial aspects).
    - th18row 4y ago
      That's correct, there'no possible enforcement. I think the beaurocrats in the EU don't even know what they are doing with most of the policies or "fines" they try to impose. It will drive Europe to a sort of digital isolationism where offshore companies will either a) dismiss and continue b) cease operations there.
      - PrimeMcFly 4y ago
        > I think the beaurocrats in the EU don't even know what they are doing with most of the policies or "fines" they try to impose. I think it's like I said, it's a lot of "feel good" laws. > It will drive Europe to a sort of digital isolationism where offshore companies will either a) dismiss and continue b) cease operations there. I think it's more likely the US adopts a softer version of the GDPR, and it will be the EU and the US and the Commonwealth countries vs pretty much other more restricted Internet 'islands'. I really hope we have a working decentralized alternative before that happens. It's something I want to start contributing to later this year, because I think it really needs to be a priority.
- PrimeMcFly 4y ago
  > Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. You seem maybe out of our depth in this discussion. I'm not sure why you take me pointing out that truth of the matter that the GDPR is unprecedented in its extraterritoriality as an attack, but it's not. This mistake is clouding all of your replies and input into this discussion. I'm fully aware of the law. That's what has been being discussed up until this point. The whole point of the law is that it isn't enforceable. > You seem to be arguing from how you believe it should work or how you think it works without knowing how it actually works, which is quite important when you are operating a business. No, I'm arguing that the GDPR is unprecedented, and EU has tried to claim jurisdiction in areas that they simply can't enforce. If you believe otherwise, that's fine, but almost all of the legal community disagrees with you.

jacquesm 4y ago

> That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-transition-period/data-protection-and-the-eu-in-detail/the-uk-gdpr/european-representatives/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-tr... https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ You seem to be arguing from how you believe it should work or how you think it works without knowing how it actually works, which is quite important when you are operating a business.

th18row 4y ago
He's right though, the EU can do nothing in that case. Quite literally nothing. There is no law to abide because you don't "care" about it and there are no consequences. Practicality > useless laws
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  Yup, that's the whole point. The Deloitte page I linked to gives a Chinese web store located in China with no EU presence as an example. It's bonkers that the EU thinks they can enforce their laws in a situation like that. But then, that's why it hasn't been tested. It's basically a 'feel good' law with no teeth (at least the extraterritorial aspects).
  - th18row 4y ago
    That's correct, there'no possible enforcement. I think the beaurocrats in the EU don't even know what they are doing with most of the policies or "fines" they try to impose. It will drive Europe to a sort of digital isolationism where offshore companies will either a) dismiss and continue b) cease operations there.
    - PrimeMcFly 4y ago
      > I think the beaurocrats in the EU don't even know what they are doing with most of the policies or "fines" they try to impose. I think it's like I said, it's a lot of "feel good" laws. > It will drive Europe to a sort of digital isolationism where offshore companies will either a) dismiss and continue b) cease operations there. I think it's more likely the US adopts a softer version of the GDPR, and it will be the EU and the US and the Commonwealth countries vs pretty much other more restricted Internet 'islands'. I really hope we have a working decentralized alternative before that happens. It's something I want to start contributing to later this year, because I think it really needs to be a priority.
PrimeMcFly 4y ago
> Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. You seem maybe out of our depth in this discussion. I'm not sure why you take me pointing out that truth of the matter that the GDPR is unprecedented in its extraterritoriality as an attack, but it's not. This mistake is clouding all of your replies and input into this discussion. I'm fully aware of the law. That's what has been being discussed up until this point. The whole point of the law is that it isn't enforceable. > You seem to be arguing from how you believe it should work or how you think it works without knowing how it actually works, which is quite important when you are operating a business. No, I'm arguing that the GDPR is unprecedented, and EU has tried to claim jurisdiction in areas that they simply can't enforce. If you believe otherwise, that's fine, but almost all of the legal community disagrees with you.