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That link doesn't really show anything useful. I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any ki

That link doesn't really show anything useful. I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU.

jacquesm 4y ago
> I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU. That's called moving the goalposts. But even in that case: the EU has a lot of power and no matter what you are still required to have a legal presence in the EU if you want to serve EU customers. Breaking the law is generally not the best course of action for any company that wants to stay in business over the longer term.
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  > That's called moving the goalposts. No, it isn't. That's the test. > no matter what you are still required to have a legal presence in the EU if you want to serve EU customers. That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    > That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-transition-period/data-protection-and-the-eu-in-detail/the-uk-gdpr/european-representatives/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-tr... https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ You seem to be arguing from how you believe it should work or how you think it works without knowing how it actually works, which is quite important when you are operating a business.
    - th18row 4y ago
      He's right though, the EU can do nothing in that case. Quite literally nothing. There is no law to abide because you don't "care" about it and there are no consequences. Practicality > useless laws
      - Zurrrrr 4y ago
        Yup, that's the whole point. The Deloitte page I linked to gives a Chinese web store located in China with no EU presence as an example. It's bonkers that the EU thinks they can enforce their laws in a situation like that. But then, that's why it hasn't been tested. It's basically a 'feel good' law with no teeth (at least the extraterritorial aspects).
        th18row 4y ago
        That's correct, there'no possible enforcement. I think the beaurocrats in the EU don't even know what they are doing with most of the policies or "fines" they try to impose. It will drive Europe to a sort of digital isolationism where offshore companies will either a) dismiss and continue b) cease operations there.
        PrimeMcFly 4y ago
        > I think the beaurocrats in the EU don't even know what they are doing with most of the policies or "fines" they try to impose. I think it's like I said, it's a lot of "feel good" laws. > It will drive Europe to a sort of digital isolationism where offshore companies will either a) dismiss and continue b) cease operations there. I think it's more likely the US adopts a softer version of the GDPR, and it will be the EU and the US and the Commonwealth countries vs pretty much other more restricted Internet 'islands'. I really hope we have a working decentralized alternative before that happens. It's something I want to start contributing to later this year, because I think it really needs to be a priority.
    - PrimeMcFly 4y ago
      > Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. You seem maybe out of our depth in this discussion. I'm not sure why you take me pointing out that truth of the matter that the GDPR is unprecedented in its extraterritoriality as an attack, but it's not. This mistake is clouding all of your replies and input into this discussion. I'm fully aware of the law. That's what has been being discussed up until this point. The whole point of the law is that it isn't enforceable. > You seem to be arguing from how you believe it should work or how you think it works without knowing how it actually works, which is quite important when you are operating a business. No, I'm arguing that the GDPR is unprecedented, and EU has tried to claim jurisdiction in areas that they simply can't enforce. If you believe otherwise, that's fine, but almost all of the legal community disagrees with you.
- th18row 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    > In the grand scheme of things, the EU is irrelevant. The disconnect on display in this thread is something else.
    - th18row 4y ago
      [flagged]
  - Zurrrrr 4y ago
    Exactly. The only thing the EU can do, barring specific agreements with countries that would allow for more, is bar service from a website to the Eu region. And then if EU users want to, they will just bypass that with a VPN...and then the law is still being violated, and still can't be enforced.
thefz 4y ago
> I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU. That's baseless rambling, sorry.
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  Nothing baseless about it at all, and it certainly isn't rambling. Do you have anything to contribute other than misguided insults?

That link doesn't really show anything useful. I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU.

jacquesm 4y ago

> I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU. That's called moving the goalposts. But even in that case: the EU has a lot of power and no matter what you are still required to have a legal presence in the EU if you want to serve EU customers. Breaking the law is generally not the best course of action for any company that wants to stay in business over the longer term.

Zurrrrr 4y ago
> That's called moving the goalposts. No, it isn't. That's the test. > no matter what you are still required to have a legal presence in the EU if you want to serve EU customers. That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  > That's nonsense. There is nothing stopping EU citizens from buying something via my US based website while they are in the EU, and I have no obligation to have any kind of presence in the EU. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-transition-period/data-protection-and-the-eu-in-detail/the-uk-gdpr/european-representatives/ https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/dp-at-the-end-of-the-tr... https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ https://gdpr-info.eu/art-27-gdpr/ You seem to be arguing from how you believe it should work or how you think it works without knowing how it actually works, which is quite important when you are operating a business.
  - th18row 4y ago
    He's right though, the EU can do nothing in that case. Quite literally nothing. There is no law to abide because you don't "care" about it and there are no consequences. Practicality > useless laws
    - Zurrrrr 4y ago
      Yup, that's the whole point. The Deloitte page I linked to gives a Chinese web store located in China with no EU presence as an example. It's bonkers that the EU thinks they can enforce their laws in a situation like that. But then, that's why it hasn't been tested. It's basically a 'feel good' law with no teeth (at least the extraterritorial aspects).
      - th18row 4y ago
        That's correct, there'no possible enforcement. I think the beaurocrats in the EU don't even know what they are doing with most of the policies or "fines" they try to impose. It will drive Europe to a sort of digital isolationism where offshore companies will either a) dismiss and continue b) cease operations there.
        PrimeMcFly 4y ago
        > I think the beaurocrats in the EU don't even know what they are doing with most of the policies or "fines" they try to impose. I think it's like I said, it's a lot of "feel good" laws. > It will drive Europe to a sort of digital isolationism where offshore companies will either a) dismiss and continue b) cease operations there. I think it's more likely the US adopts a softer version of the GDPR, and it will be the EU and the US and the Commonwealth countries vs pretty much other more restricted Internet 'islands'. I really hope we have a working decentralized alternative before that happens. It's something I want to start contributing to later this year, because I think it really needs to be a priority.
  - PrimeMcFly 4y ago
    > Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking the law. You seem maybe out of our depth in this discussion. I'm not sure why you take me pointing out that truth of the matter that the GDPR is unprecedented in its extraterritoriality as an attack, but it's not. This mistake is clouding all of your replies and input into this discussion. I'm fully aware of the law. That's what has been being discussed up until this point. The whole point of the law is that it isn't enforceable. > You seem to be arguing from how you believe it should work or how you think it works without knowing how it actually works, which is quite important when you are operating a business. No, I'm arguing that the GDPR is unprecedented, and EU has tried to claim jurisdiction in areas that they simply can't enforce. If you believe otherwise, that's fine, but almost all of the legal community disagrees with you.
th18row 4y ago
[flagged]
- jacquesm 4y ago
  > In the grand scheme of things, the EU is irrelevant. The disconnect on display in this thread is something else.
  - th18row 4y ago
    [flagged]
- Zurrrrr 4y ago
  Exactly. The only thing the EU can do, barring specific agreements with countries that would allow for more, is bar service from a website to the Eu region. And then if EU users want to, they will just bypass that with a VPN...and then the law is still being violated, and still can't be enforced.

thefz 4y ago

> I'll wait to see how it holds up when the EU tries to enforce it against a US website with no presence of any kind in the EU. That's baseless rambling, sorry.

Zurrrrr 4y ago
Nothing baseless about it at all, and it certainly isn't rambling. Do you have anything to contribute other than misguided insults?