6 ms·

As far as I concern, "feelings" or "sensations" is just a vector in finite dimensional space. No magic behind. Taste can already be replicated. https://www.mei

As far as I concern, "feelings" or "sensations" is just a vector in finite dimensional space. No magic behind. Taste can already be replicated. https://www.meiji.ac.jp/cip/english/news/2021/enjsp3000000jrgy.html https://www.meiji.ac.jp/cip/english/news/2021/enjsp3000000jr...

Jensson 4y ago
You are wrong, you need the entire computational network that processes that data and creates signals for the brain depending on various circumstances such as nutrient levels and so on. Low on protein? You will find meat tastier etc, that is a part of the feelings and taste, so it can't be replicated with a simple vector. I don't really see how we could copy all of that logic to a computer, we would need some super brain scan or something, and without it the computer wont be able to understand the feeling. ChatGPT works on text since we produced so much text that for it to process and associate. We can't do the same thing for taste or feelings. Only viable alternative I can see is that we try to reverse engineer it, or we put permanent brain scans on people and see what they taste at what circumstances and how it affects their feelings over time, and then train a model on that data, that could make it possible.
- akasakahakada 4y ago
  > You will find meat tastier etc, that is a part of the feelings and taste, so it can't be replicated with a simple vector. What is the logic? Didn't you just literally if seeing(meat): bias += 1 ???
  - Jensson 4y ago
    Yeah, now write down all such biases for taste and feelings. You will find it quite hard to get something that replicates the taste and feelings of a human, that is why we create models to generate that code based on tons of data. The problem is that we don't have tons of data for these things so we wont be able to create such a model until we do.
    - akasakahakada 4y ago
      This is just based on unknown factors, and the difficulty of getting the dataset. But this do not stop the thing that taste of feeling can be expressed as a vector and that is its representation inside the neural network. But then I think I get what you mean. Yeah the thing behind taste is a matrix, you multiply the current state of the body+food and it returns what you feel by your tongue. Since matrix modelize all kinds of interaction between all other factors. This should clears the problem. But still the output is a vector. Taste is a vector. But different people can have different matrix to be multiplied with. In physics they call this kind of matrix "observable". If you know physics you get the idea.
      - Jensson 4y ago
        Yeah, that makes more sense. I just wanted to point out that taste isn't just the input but also the experience of that input. Then you could also argue that replicating human feelings or taste isn't very important, and it isn't really except if you want it to understand humans. I think it will be hard to understand humans well without also being able to predict their feelings or taste, we humans have that built in but a computer would need data to predict it.
        akasakahakada 4y ago
        Sounds like we are converging to a point that taste science is the next doable project in deep learning. Find something that can be measured. For example measure the amount of sweat of the person eating spicy food. The blood flood rate in the surface of skin. We can know roughly how the person react to spiciness. And than maybe do some clustering, changing the amount of spiciness, draw some regression curve, damn this is exciting!

Jensson 4y ago

You are wrong, you need the entire computational network that processes that data and creates signals for the brain depending on various circumstances such as nutrient levels and so on. Low on protein? You will find meat tastier etc, that is a part of the feelings and taste, so it can't be replicated with a simple vector. I don't really see how we could copy all of that logic to a computer, we would need some super brain scan or something, and without it the computer wont be able to understand the feeling. ChatGPT works on text since we produced so much text that for it to process and associate. We can't do the same thing for taste or feelings. Only viable alternative I can see is that we try to reverse engineer it, or we put permanent brain scans on people and see what they taste at what circumstances and how it affects their feelings over time, and then train a model on that data, that could make it possible.

akasakahakada 4y ago
> You will find meat tastier etc, that is a part of the feelings and taste, so it can't be replicated with a simple vector. What is the logic? Didn't you just literally if seeing(meat): bias += 1 ???
- Jensson 4y ago
  Yeah, now write down all such biases for taste and feelings. You will find it quite hard to get something that replicates the taste and feelings of a human, that is why we create models to generate that code based on tons of data. The problem is that we don't have tons of data for these things so we wont be able to create such a model until we do.
  - akasakahakada 4y ago
    This is just based on unknown factors, and the difficulty of getting the dataset. But this do not stop the thing that taste of feeling can be expressed as a vector and that is its representation inside the neural network. But then I think I get what you mean. Yeah the thing behind taste is a matrix, you multiply the current state of the body+food and it returns what you feel by your tongue. Since matrix modelize all kinds of interaction between all other factors. This should clears the problem. But still the output is a vector. Taste is a vector. But different people can have different matrix to be multiplied with. In physics they call this kind of matrix "observable". If you know physics you get the idea.
    - Jensson 4y ago
      Yeah, that makes more sense. I just wanted to point out that taste isn't just the input but also the experience of that input. Then you could also argue that replicating human feelings or taste isn't very important, and it isn't really except if you want it to understand humans. I think it will be hard to understand humans well without also being able to predict their feelings or taste, we humans have that built in but a computer would need data to predict it.
      - akasakahakada 4y ago
        Sounds like we are converging to a point that taste science is the next doable project in deep learning. Find something that can be measured. For example measure the amount of sweat of the person eating spicy food. The blood flood rate in the surface of skin. We can know roughly how the person react to spiciness. And than maybe do some clustering, changing the amount of spiciness, draw some regression curve, damn this is exciting!